Conn BBb 30J, both bells

scottw · Post by **scottw** » Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:41 pm

I know there are some avid Conn enthusiasts here on the board, so I'd like to know if this tuba has any real value. My son-in-law discovered this sitting in a local music store for many, many months. I have but one picture of it, enough to tell [from the Conn Loyalist website] that it is almost certainly a 30J BBb from about 1934, in seemingly very nice condition, plus it has both recording and upright bells, 26". Neither bell [from his picture and description] seems to have been rolled. Again, I have not seen this instrument and Jack is a trumpet player, so I am not completely sure of it's playing condition.
It has been there for quite some time with a price tag of $1399. hung on it. If it is worth that or more, I would consider buying it if I had any profit margin and enough to cover repairs and shipping. It should have a good home. I remember playing a similar horn about 20 years ago, and remember it was a beast--definitely heavier than I care to play personally!
Here is the URL for the page--it matches up perfectly, especially the tubing and top bows to the left of the 3rd valve in the photo and this drawing.
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn30J ... image.html
Any information would be appreciated!
Scottw

The Big Ben · Post by **The Big Ben** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:45 am

The 20J has it's audience. I would think this horn would be popular with that audience. And it has two bells. The reason it might not sell in a music store is that no one came in the dorr who wanted to buy it. If I was the owner of the music store, I would put it on Craigslist with photos of everything. Many people look at CL for entertainment. Someone who wanted this probably trolls CL.

If the horn is relatively dent free (or at least no giant dents) and plays well, that price is probably worth it. I've seen 20js which go for that price with one bell. If you buy it ti flip it, it might be worth the risk.

Post by **matt g** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:56 am

I think the upright bell is likely worth 1/3 to 1/2 this price for someone looking for an original Conn upright bell.

scottw · Post by **scottw** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:05 pm

Big Ben: This is a 30J, not a 20J.
Does this make a difference in your evaluation?
Thanks for the response.
Scott

The Big Ben · Post by **The Big Ben** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:13 pm

Yes, I referred to those out there who liked 20Js. There are lots of them. Those people most likely be receptive to a 30J. A big, full BBb horn.

lost · Post by **lost** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:32 pm

I'd be all over that. The upright bell if original would be slightly smaller than later 20j's.

Kirley · Post by **Kirley** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:27 pm

You say you have only one photo of the horn. Does it show the valves close up?
The reason I ask is that these horns are very similar in looks to 20Js which are WAY more common.
I've only encountered one 30J in all my wanderings as opposed to hundreds of 20Js.
Either way, an original upright bell for either horn is valuable. There are lots of folks out there with awesome 36Js that'd love to have an upright bell.

scottw · Post by **scottw** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:46 pm

Kirley wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:27 pm You say you have only one photo of the horn. Does it show the valves close up?
The reason I ask is that these horns are very similar in looks to 20Js which are WAY more common.
I've only encountered one 30J in all my wanderings as opposed to hundreds of 20Js.
Either way, an original upright bell for either horn is valuable. There are lots of folks out there with awesome 36Js that'd love to have an upright bell.

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn20J1961image.html
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn30J
My picture looks identical to that of the 30J above. I can see the main difference comparing the 20J and 30 J: in the 2 pictures, note the double loop of the 30J to the left of the 3rd valve compared to just one in the 20J. My picture of the horn has exactly that.
I will have to actually lay eyes on it, but the 2 horns have different size bells--26" for the 30J and 24" for the 20J. I wonder if the collars are the same size?

lost · Post by **lost** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:51 pm

No the bell collar is slightly smaller on 30J's as hinted above.

scottw · Post by **scottw** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:39 pm

lost wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:51 pm No the bell collar is slightly smaller on 30J's as hinted above.

Smaller? The bell is bigger on the 30J than the 20J; it stands to reason that the 30J would be bigger, no?
If so, then is there going to be any interchange possible with the more-common 20J? That would make a difference if the 2 bells were sold separately, would it not?
Thanks for the input!
Scott

Kirley · Post by **Kirley** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:04 pm

Early 20Js had the curly cue in the 3rd valve loop.
Just like the 30J in your link.
Someone around here probably knows what year they straightened them out.
Not trying to be argumentative but if that's the only evidence pointing toward 30J, I'd bet it's a 20J.

lost · Post by **lost** » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:16 am

scottw wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:39 pm
lost wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:51 pm No the bell collar is slightly smaller on 30J's as hinted above.
Smaller? The bell is bigger on the 30J than the 20J; it stands to reason that the 30J would be bigger, no?
If so, then is there going to be any interchange possible with the more-common 20J? That would make a difference if the 2 bells were sold separately, would it not?
Thanks for the input!
Scott

I've had a few 30j's and all of them did not interchange easily with 20j bells , bigger bell or not. A 30j bell will fit loosely in a 20j collar but a 20j bell fitting in a 30j means either the bell is not original (kanstul) or is a modified 20j bell that has been heavily buffed to fit.

A 26 inch recording bell means it might be a 30j or a 20k bell. If the 26 inch bell tilts more to ceiling than forward it is probably a 30j.

scottw · Post by **scottw** » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:09 am

Very interesting. Kirley says it may be a 20J even with the curled tubing. Is there a measurement--maybe the bell collar or the bore size, etc--that would tell one from the other? Maybe in the serial number?
I really have to get to that store and look it over, but what should I look for? This is certainly intriguing!
My picture seems to show the bell is not bell front like a sousaphone, instead pointing up at least 45 degrees, I'd say.
Again, from the picture, I really can't see any dents except for a couple small ones just below the bell collar--easily removed. Tomorrow should be the day I go look at it, if I know what to look for. Certainly see how it plays.
Thanks again for all the feedback!
Scott

bloke · Post by **bloke** » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:19 am

I've witnessed scantly smaller bell collar meeting dimensions on the VERY old Conn 7+ inch collars, but not so different that a new (scantly larger) one can't be filed/sanded (or lathe-turned, if a large lathe) down to fit an ancient receiver...

As far as the tuba...I really don't care for short-action valves, so (mechanical/cosmetic condition aside - for the sake of discussion) I would pick this over a short-action 2XJ (as it is obviously very similar to a 2XJ) - WERE it that I was interested in a tuba of this specific (6/4 Conn) configuration.

Kirley · Post by **Kirley** » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:26 am

If it’s got short-action valves, it’s a 20J.
Regular valves, 30J.

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Conn BBb 30J, both bells

Conn BBb 30J, both bells

Re: Conn BBb 30J, both bells

Re: Conn BBb 30J, both bells

Re: Conn BBb 30J, both bells

Re: Conn BBb 30J, both bells

Re: Conn BBb 30J, both bells

Re: Conn BBb 30J, both bells

Re: Conn BBb 30J, both bells

Re: Conn BBb 30J, both bells

Re: Conn BBb 30J, both bells

Re: Conn BBb 30J, both bells

Re: Conn BBb 30J, both bells

Re: Conn BBb 30J, both bells

Re: Conn BBb 30J, both bells

Re: Conn BBb 30J, both bells