The QUEST for a Great Cerveny CCB601-4 CC tuba

[Matt Walters]

Okay. I got the EXACT version of Cerveny CCB601-4 CC tuba that I was hoping for. Only it is in a little better condition than I expected. Yeah yeah, the lacquer is worn and it has some minor dings. No problem. In an abundance of caution, I've not played even one note on it yet. The goal is to come up with a relatively big CC tuba that is reasonably in-tune, a bit on the lighter side and Fun To Play. This one has the "S" shape linkage and those old "Ergonomic" paddles that scream classic Cerveny. It has the smaller 17.75" upright bell and that big thumb ring. I love it. So the Journey starts:

This morning I carried the tuba carefully over construction debris then up the block to the car and took it to work (Dillon Music). Our street is in the middle of a complete redo so no parking in front of the house and everything is dirt and dust right now.
I got to work 45 minutes early and took the tuba apart but no unsoldering. I put it in the acid bath for 10 minutes. Disinfected all the shop tools I used and sprayed down my work bench, then put out a clean towel on the work bench to rest the tuba on. Standard protocol these days. Then I super scrubbed it with soap and brushes, inside and out. Next was to scrub the slides, rotors, etc. I put everything on my bench and dried them off. The lever assembly I disassembled and then individually degreased and scrubbed each lever plus lever bridge. Now on to improvements:

1) I checked the hinge rod in each lever and sure enough the #4 was just slightly binding. Lapped that in and now all the levers are free to move on the hinge rod. I put fresh oil at all 4 joints of the double hinge section of the levers and spun them around making sure oil got into all the joints to work it's way through. Luckily no excess slop in the double hinge joints so I don't need to swedge them tighter.
2) I threw away the old Cerveny lever springs. Besides rust, the springs are wrapped too tight around the hinge tube so they can rub and bind. Plus when they get rusty they give off a scratchy noise. Anyone with an old Cerveny knows what I am talking about. I am replacing the springs with new Miraphone tuba springs.
3) I visually checked to make sure that the alignment marks on the rotors were accurate. This particular tuba was very good. Next time you have a rotor valve out, hold the rotor with the index finger and thumb of each hand pinching in the cut out section. Look at the alignment marks. The human eye can judge straight and 90 degrees within a few degrees. Just look. If accurate, make sure the bottom bearing plate hatch mark will line up when you install the rotor assembly. Just use the Mark 1 eyeball.

That is as far as I got. Tomorrow morning is to be spent replacing the bumpers for the rotors. Some bumpers have to be thin and others thick. They weren't that accurate with installing the bumper plates back then. Trimming bumpers on an old Cerveny tuba is time consuming. My goal is to have the horn back together and bring it home on Friday so I can play it a bit. I'll make a note of the intonation and just play it to see what I find missing compared to what I remember from 27 years ago when I last owned one of these. I already found a couple of things to fix/tweak. That's for later.

[LeMark]

what size bell? Every 18" bell 601 I've ever played has felt better than the 20" bell ones

As someone who played a 601 back in the late 80's at College and bought another one later because I love them so much, I can't wait to see how this project turns out

[bloke]

[Casca Grossa]

Can't wait to follow the progress.

[Ace]

This an exciting post. I wish I still had my Cerveny CC 601-5MR 4+1. It had a great tone, rich and pillowy. Best rotary valves I have ever experienced.

Ace

[tylerferris1213]

I loved my CCB 601, and I regret selling it. I ended up buying the BBb version years later when one came available.

[Matt Walters]

This older Cerveny CCB601-4 has the smaller 17.75" upright bell and that big thumb ring.

[Stryk]

.

[Doc]

Just wish the 4th slide was a couple inches longer!

Don't we all?

Terry, you can make it longer anytime you want. We know lots of folks who can help with that. And it likely won't be cost-prohibitive.

[LeMark]

Ed Jones just bought a 601, and the 4th valve tubing was very short on it. I made him extensions out of spare parts I had to bring it down to pitch.

[bloke]

I've always thought the the PCK bodies look curiously similar to those things...

[Matt Walters]

Okay. Frist thing this morning I installed new rubber bumpers and trimmed them to align the rotors. This horn was actually easier to align than many Cerveny tubas of that era. Also noticed stamping of "4" on everything. I suspect that is the person assembling the horn as I have noticed old European horns with lower stamp numbers on the lever bridge/rotors tend to be better players and better assembled. Something to be said for the experience of old timers.
I then set the tension on the new Miraphone springs and voila the valves were ready to go. Grease the slides and I noticed the shorter ferrules on the #1 slide so someone already cut that shorter. Great.
I took the tuba into the practice room, shut the door, removed my mask and then proceeded to play it. I LOVE THIS TUBA. It was "Old Home Week" with faster air that works on a rotor tuba compared to piston tubas. I was using my Kellyberg tester mouthpiece.
Too soon it was time to start work so I put back on my mask, sprayed down the room, and then went to work on store stuff. After work I played the tuba for a coworker and he too loved the old European sound of the horn. Again, the room had to be sprayed down after playing in it. Safety protocols keep us all safe.
The intonation was as expected but the horn was just up to A=440 pitch with the main tuning slide all the way in. I hate short main tuning slides because sometimes I get stuck in a group that plays flat or outside on a really hot day. To fix that, I plan to remove the 3rd branch which includes the dog leg and cut a little off each side of that to shorten the horn. I also think it might nudge a couple out of tune notes a little bit. That's for later.

[LeMark]

What's the vintage? If you dont know, I might be able to look at the bell engraving and narrow it down

I'm not a fan of most cerveny tubas made in the last 30 years, but I have owned 4 horns built in the late 70"s to late 80's, and I think they are gold. Love the valves, love the tone, most of them have workable intonation. I did add a tuning stick to my 601 to help adjust a low C that was flat

My piggy was one of the best tubas I've ever played, never should have sold it

[Matt Walters]

Mark,
The engraving is the plainest "Cerveny" engraving I have ever seen. Nothing else.

[Casca Grossa]

What's the vintage? If you dont know, I might be able to look at the bell engraving and narrow it down

I'm not a fan of most cerveny tubas made in the last 30 years, but I have owned 4 horns built in the late 70"s to late 80's, and I think they are gold. Love the valves, love the tone, most of them have workable intonation. I did add a tuning stick to my 601 to help adjust a low C that was flat

My piggy was one of the best tubas I've ever played, never should have sold it

This was my horn. It is a late 70's to early 80's vintage to the best of my knowledge.

[Casca Grossa]

Okay. Frist thing this morning I installed new rubber bumpers and trimmed them to align the rotors. This horn was actually easier to align than many Cerveny tubas of that era. Also noticed stamping of "4" on everything. I suspect that is the person assembling the horn as I have noticed old European horns with lower stamp numbers on the lever bridge/rotors tend to be better players and better assembled. Something to be said for the experience of old timers.
I then set the tension on the new Miraphone springs and voila the valves were ready to go. Grease the slides and I noticed the shorter ferrules on the #1 slide so someone already cut that shorter. Great.
I took the tuba into the practice room, shut the door, removed my mask and then proceeded to play it. I LOVE THIS TUBA. It was "Old Home Week" with faster air that works on a rotor tuba compared to piston tubas. I was using my Kellyberg tester mouthpiece.
Too soon it was time to start work so I put back on my mask, sprayed down the room, and then went to work on store stuff. After work I played the tuba for a coworker and he too loved the old European sound of the horn. Again, the room had to be sprayed down after playing in it. Safety protocols keep us all safe.
The intonation was as expected but the horn was just up to A=440 pitch with the main tuning slide all the way in. I hate short main tuning slides because sometimes I get stuck in a group that plays flat or outside on a really hot day. To fix that, I plan to remove the 3rd branch which includes the dog leg and cut a little off each side of that to shorten the horn. I also think it might nudge a couple out of tune notes a little bit. That's for later.

This all makes me very happy.

[LeMark]

This was my horn. It is a late 70's to early 80's vintage to the best of my knowledge.

That is what I would have guessed based on the engraving

[Matt Walters]

Okay,
I got the tuba soldered back together this morning. The results are very promising but I want to play it over a couple days to make sure I'm not lipping it more in-tune in a placebo effect.
Details to follow in a few days. Cutting .9" off the dog leg and .8" off the large side of that smaller branch that includes a dog leg was great. I now play A=440 with about a 3/4" slide pull. Perfect.

[LeMark]

Very exciting project Matt! Thank you for tackling this.

Let me ask you a question. Every cerveny I've ever played had a significantly larger gap between the bearing stem and the bearing, even when the horns were new. Other instruments, like miraphone, have a much tighter bearing, so much so that you cant even get any oil in there by pulling a slide for vacuum.

My valves NEVER stick, but if they get dry they do rattle a bit, but they are very easy to oil. Is that your experience with cerveny, and do you like that aspect of them, or do you think they would be even better with less bearing gap?

[Matt Walters]

Yes. This Cerveny CCB601-4 also has some slop at the top bearing where the rotor shaft goes through. I can use the bearing shrinking tool to tighten that and may still do that. However, more often than not, that repair doesn't last too long before it gets loose again. This one is not that bad yet.