SOLD F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

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Rick Denney
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SOLD F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

Post by Rick Denney »

My wife's uncle was a tuba player and when I came into the family he decided to start it up again. I helped him buy first a Besson, and later helped him sell that one to fund an older King 1241. They moved to a new house and his wife said, "One tuba, but make it a good one!" He sold the King and bought this very nice VMI 3301, engraved as F. Schmidt. I don't remember exactly what year that was, but I'm thinking late-aughts, when the tuba was only a few years old, so I've known this instrument for most of its life. Uncle Dave is no longer with us, and his son has asked me to help this one find a new home. I just met up with him over the weekend and now the instrument is in my possession.

As our august host will tell you, F. Schmidt was the house stencil brand of Brook Mays in Dallas, first applied to instruments made by VMI. VMI is, of course, the company created to absorb the B&S factory after German unification, when Gerhard Meinl (of Meinl-Weston) had purchased what had been VEB B&S under the TA-Musik umbrella. That became JA-Musik and now that factory makes B&S-branded tubas and is owned by Buffet-Crampon. The tubas in this lineage have been made in Markneukirchen since before WWII.

The 3301 is a 4/4, four-piston-valve Bb tuba in a configuration similar to a King 2341 (but bigger). It's quite similar in size to my former York Master, which was similar to the B&M Symphonic 5500. The Miraphone 191 is similar but a bit bigger. This instrument is identical in every detail to a B&S PT-2P, and I have compared them side by side. This one plays very well, with excellent intonation, great scale, and easy access to first and third slides.

Uncle Dave played in several community groups, including a concert band, a polka band, and a Dixieland band. This tuba worked great for all of them. He always stored and transported it in the case. It has a handful of small dents and dings, three of which I've pictured below. If they are hard to see in the pictures it's because they are hard to see. This tuba has never been repaired because it's never been damaged.

No mouthpiece is included. The receiver accepts a Euro shank.

The case seems to be an MTS or a knockoff, from before the time MTS used full plastic shells. (I'm no case historian.) This one uses a plastic shell in the bell area, but the rest is wood. I've gone over the case and it's well-used but solid and looks nice. The wheel axles were loose and I installed steel angles through which the axle bolts thread and then into the original nuts and plates in the case. The wheels are now straight and solid. The interior of the case is excellent and was specifically fitted for this instrument. The case is 30" tall from the floor, 42" long, and 22" wide at the bell.

The tuba is 36" tall with a 19" bell (actually slightly larger) and with a bore of 19/19.5mm. The valves are Meinl "Big Valves" as used in Meinl-Weston and B&S piston C tubas, and they are in perfect condition.

The instrument has been sitting in the case for the last several years since Uncle Dave passed. He didn't polish it very often and sitting in his room it had become tarnished. I had polished and ragged it out for him about the time he became ill, but he left us before getting to see it cleaned up. It's been in the case since then so it's still largely free of tarnish, but I'll wipe it down before delivery.

Price is $4000 and this tuba is worth more. The last time these were sold new they went for $6500 from the usual discounters. There's a B&S-branded example at one of the tuba stores right now for $7000. Again, this instrument is identical--the engraving happens after they are built.

I will be able to deliver the instrument to a buyer at the Army Workshop in February. If I don't find a buyer by then, you may see it at a higher price from one of the stores, on consignment. Act now. I can meet someone in the mid-Atlantic region to deliver it, but with shipping services as risky as they have become, I cannot take that risk on my cousin's behalf. He will probably ask me to put it on consignment somewhere before agreeing to ship it.

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one of a handful of tiny dents

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another one

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adjustable thumb ring

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36" tall with a 19" bell

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the wider spacing of the wheels makes it even easier to roll, and it won't tip easily

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Heavily reinforced wheel axle mounts by me. Also installed (gold-anodized) aluminum rub angled on the bottom corner to reinforce that joint.

Rick "you know you want it" Denney
Last edited by Rick Denney on Thu Feb 01, 2024 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

Post by LeMark »

I might have sold him that tuba!

I am interested, and I am going to be at the army conference. It would be challenging getting it home, unless I/we could find a way to check the hard case with at least some confidence that it would make the trip

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Re: F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

Post by Rick Denney »

LeMark wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:03 pm I might have sold him that tuba! Do you know what year he bought it?

I am interested, and I am going to be at the army conference. It would be challenging getting it home, unless I/we could find a way to check the hard case with at least some confidence that it would make the trip

Ill message you
You probably sold it to the guy he bought it from, who lived (as I dimly recall) in Ohio or thereabouts. Uncle Dave lived in western Maryland in those days, and drove out to make the transaction.

As to putting the case in the hold, I'd add at least a luggage strap around the middle to keep the latches from popping open. My preference would be to wrap it in shipping plastic, but the TSA wouldn't tolerate that.

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Re: F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

Post by LeMark »

You remember I've done that before, recently, and I'd rather not have the stress of that ant time soon. If you think there is a way to secure the horn from shifting in the case, and then put a belt around the case, that's the way I would like to go.
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Re: F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

Post by Rick Denney »

LeMark wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:13 pm You remember I've done that before, recently, and I'd rather not have the stress of that ant time soon. If you think there is a way to secure the horn from shifting in the case, and then put a belt around the case, that's the way I would like to go.
It should work okay. The instrument is quite well-protected in the case. I'd probably add a soccer ball to transmit any blows on the bell end to the hoop instead of the rim. The case has velcro straps that can lock down the bottom bow, so it won't fall out even if the case opens unintentionally. If you want more pics, let me know.

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Re: F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

Post by Sousaswag »

These are excellent instruments. I owned a 3302 for several years as my first tuba, and LOVED it.

I wish you best of luck with the sale!

What’s even better… Should someone want to, look at all that room to add a (factory option!!!) 5th rotor!
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Re: F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

Post by Rick Denney »

Pics in the case.

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Note the Velcro straps that hold down the bottom bow. They are a pain in daily use but will keep the tuba in the case if the lid pops open.

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2+ inches of padding around the bottom bow

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And at the bell rim. But I would still support the bell hoop with an inflated rubber ball if shipping it in the case.

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Continuously padded outer branch.

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Padded block for the front above the valves.

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And another one lower down below the valves.

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For the case historians.

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Re: F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

Post by LeMark »

Maybe between the ball in the bell and a little extra padding anywhere else it might shift around, it would be ok. As long as the case in one piece, it looks like it would survive anything but the worst treatment by baggage handlers

Thanks for the pics. It's funny you posted it today. I'm still wanting to look at the hagen 494, but this one is less than half the cost, abs5is also a very good tuba


If you don't sell it between now and then, I'm a serious buyer, but the size of my hands doesn't line up very well with some piston sets, so I would need to play it first before I can commit. It's literally been over 20 years since I've played one
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Re: F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

Post by tofu »

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Re: F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

Post by LeMark »

It's called a 3/4 because it's slightly shorter than the 4/4 hagen, but it's still closer to a 4/4 instrument.

Im looking for something more nimble than my current BbbTubas (Packer 379b) , but yet still compact. Both this and the hagen are good candidates

It's Possible neither of them will be worth the thousands it will take to upgrade, but I'm looking forward to finding out
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Re: F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

Post by Rick Denney »

Tuba is sold pending payment.

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Re: F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

Post by bloke »

I'm not surprised it's already sold, pending payment. I was offered one of these for sale locally, bought it, and sold it pretty quickly. To me it looks like a particular model of C tuba which has been design-altered to be a B-flat. Remembering how the C version plays, I judge the B-flat to be a whole bunch better, and a really good idea, as far as creating the model. Had I been more into B-flat at that time - and more B-flat oriented, I'm pretty sure I would have personally rated it even higher than I did.
I'm thinking that where I or someone else to search the for sale ads on this site, my old ad might have been hosted here. I can't remember the name of the person to whom I sold it, but my recollection is that they were a brilliant student who loved the tuba and was planning to minor in tuba while pursuing their degree that was either in technology, the sciences, mathematics, or something along those lines.
They were a tough negotiator, but I'm thinking that I sold that instrument for a bit more than this price, probably in the same approximate price range.
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Re: F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

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Re: SOLD F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

Post by Rick Denney »

Tuba has been delivered to its new owner.

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Re: SOLD F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

Post by Three Valves »

Looks like LeMark is going to have to charter a plane to bring his tuba collection home! :tuba:
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Re: SOLD F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

Post by LeMark »

I didn't buy it. He found a buyer who wanted it before the army workshop. It's fine, I have my sights on buying a hagen ASAP
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Re: SOLD F. Schmidt-branded B&S PT-2P/VMI 3301, silver, case, $4000

Post by bloke »

I liked the one that I flipped not terribly long ago, and may well have liked it even better had I've been more into the B-flat instruments at that time. I know I'm being redundant, but I'm really suspicious that this was a mediocre C design that was extended into a very good B-flat design.
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