school repairs strategy/mindset

[bloke]

I know people that use hollow steel balls with earth magnets, but - being hollow - they don't have as much mass. I guess I could have more options with balls of the same size that pull more or less, but I've gotten pretty accustomed to different size balls that pull more or less and how to avoid "streaks". I think it would just be learning a different way to do things just as well - and no faster.
I'm not criticizing it, but I suspect it's like learning another good way to do something when I've already taught myself a good way to do something.

Anyway, I have great respect for the anonymous shop that restored and sold this Pan American sousaphone to this school way back whenever they did it.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[bloke]

In this thread, one post doesn't necessarily need to follow another, so I'm going to change the topic to valve stems for school tubas and marching instruments. I'm really tired of the top mounted valve guides that are held in by super small threaded brass valve stems in a stupid little washer. I'm tired of them breaking off all the time and me having to fish what's left of the valve stem out of the piston. King valve stems almost never break, because they don't do two jobs and because they have this built-in washer that makes a seat against the top of the piston.

[York-aholic]

That's a good looking sousaphone (condition wise),especially considering that its spent its whole life in a school.

Nice work.

[Cameron Gates]

In this thread, one post doesn't necessarily need to follow another, so I'm going to change the topic to valve stems for school tubas and marching instruments. I'm really tired of the top mounted valve guides that are held in by super small threaded brass valve stems in a stupid little washer. I'm tired of them breaking off all the time and me having to fish what's left of the valve stem out of the piston. King valve stems almost never break, because they don't do two jobs and because they have this built-in washer that makes a seat against the top of the piston.

This is a topic we could go on for days. I wholeheartedly agree. Yamaha, Jupiter and others should get their R&D departments an entire King 2280 valve assembly (and ONLY a valve assembly) and say "this or you are fired".

Isn't Yamaha due for another valve cap/stem/valve guide/valve felt/removable branch brace screw redesign by now?? The Japanese elves need to get on this.

If anyone is in dire need of any old style metal Yamaha tuba/euph guides hit me up. I have the guides but I do not have the screws.

[bloke]

That's a good looking sousaphone (condition wise),especially considering that its spent its whole life in a school.

Nice work.

Thanks...The work is "adequate".
The other one for this school (I've got it playing, but now removing body/bell dents) is a Yamaha.
It's thicker brass, and there's a deep karate chop about 2/3rds of the way down the 1st branch on the INSIDE BACK.
I doubt that it will completely "magnet" out...but I might (??) be able to reach it with a goofy-bent rod, and Mrs. bloke's help.
(Right now, she's finishing hand-polishing all of the difficult/tight interior areas of that 186 (that I put together from "stuff in the attic").
If we get a break in the rain/humidity, I'm hoping to shoot it, assemble it, repair a (school-owned) case for it, and deliver/sell it to the school that agreed to buy it. (It's a remarkably good player with remarkably good early 1960's rotors...Clues lead me to suspect that it was originally one of the detachable/recording ones.) BONUS: It has that old-style dipsy-doodle (three #2 slide bows) #4 slide, so the 4th valve pitches are NOT hopelessly sharp.

Yamaha sousaphone:
I recall not enjoying playing these, but - to be fair - I'm not a fan of 20K's, either...and I'm also not a fan of those (likely: B&M-made old Mirafone sousaphones. I'll play this one - after it's all straightened out - and see if my opinion (now that I'm an amateur, once again - ie. B-flat player) is better than the other times.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[bloke]

That COULD (??) be an improvement, but its still only an M4 X .75 thread, (rather than a 1/4 or a 12 SAE) and it's still squished down against nylon (rather than against brass).

note:
I'm not raising issues with YOU, but with THEM.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[bloke]

...and the Jupiter one or two piece marching brass ALUMINUM stems...ick...and - often - "out of stock".

With those (ie. so often out of stock), I cut off remaining (broken off) threads, drill into the bottom, tap, epoxy in the correct threaded (stainless steel) screw, cut the threads off with c. 1/4" exposure, reinstall, and hope for the best.

bloke "Bach/Yamaha trumpet aluminum valve stems are bad enough...and I'm hearing about aluminum tuba finger buttons...no...just...no."

[bloke]

...so I'm done with this school's sousaphones (only two on this p.o., but they have others that are smushied in their storage room.
- the Pan American (Conn 14K)
- the Yamaha (Y-whatever)
...and I'm also soldering a King neck back together, so (remembering now) they'll have THREE working sousaphones...and this is one of those "rebuilding" programs - so that should be plenty for now.
Mrs. bloke finished the woodwinds (same p.o.) and I have the marching brass to do, and then (well...) $$$$'s.

I'm not getting involved any more deeply (than pictured below) with this Yamaha, based on the amount of remuneration for getting it back up-and-running. For the money, they're getting plenty of un-smashing.
It's a ton better than it was and (notice - back side) I got about 95% of that impossible karate chop out of the 1st branch (and I couldn't anneal it, 'cause it's silver plated). It was difficult. again: Young men who "work out" typically do NOT "work" the muscles required to do this work...They look bulky, but are (basically) useless as help.

OH YEAH: review of Yamaha sousaphone playing characteristics.
below a certain volume level - no focus
above a certain volume level (which arrives way too early...I'd say: "forte") - the typical "BLATT" thing
...so (as I remembered, but not why) NOT my cup of tea.

build quality:
NOTHING was un-soldered on the entire instrument , but I didn't like seeing the female bell collar flexing outward, when tightening the bell screws.
ONE valve stem was busted off - and I forget to order any...but (thankfully) I have some old Weril stuff in cardboard box...and those stems are the same threads.
That bolt-together jazz (so that small peeps can factory-polish these things) prevents me from (magnets) removing dents without about 5/8" of those connections, just fwiw.

These are about as heavy as old Elkhart 20K's...maybe almost as heavy (though Kings are smaller and remarkably heavy - ie. actually 30 lbs.) as OLD Kings...whatever.

SUMMARY:
I view this as a "selling" sousaphone (vs. a "playing" sousaphone).





If I get just a little bit better at this, I might try to get on Angie's List, but first I'll need to be "certified", so I guess I need to join that repair club thing (take a nap, Bert?) and buy some of those gadgets that are offered for sale at their get-togethers.
My one day overhauls might almost be as good as those one day shower stall installation things.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[arpthark]

I marched a Yamaha sousaphone like that in college. Screaming sharp. Not that anybody was really interested in tuning...

[bloke]

I marched a Yamaha sousaphone like that in college. Screaming sharp. Not that anybody was really interested in tuning...

I'm sure the sousaphone was Scientifically designed (along with being certified and peer-reviewed) to play perfectly in tune.
You blame the sousaphone, rather than the fact that you didn't go study with The Man.

[arpthark]

I marched a Yamaha sousaphone like that in college. Screaming sharp. Not that anybody was really interested in tuning...

I'm sure the sousaphone was Scientifically designed (along with being certified and peer-reviewed) to play perfectly in tune.
You blame the sousaphone, rather than the fact that you didn't go study with The Man.

Don't worry. Young collegiate scholars were more interested in throwing acorns at each other's bells than focusing too hard on what they sounded like.

The best was when a guy with perfect pitch walked around trying to "tune" the band. Why?

Anyway. Not a fan of the Yammies or the myriad memories they entail.

On a positive note, I noticed when I was back in my hometown band room last year that they are still using the same Conn 20Ks that I marched with 20 years ago, still in good shape. Our HS band director would've killed us if we had done the stuff to those 20Ks that I witnessed, four years later, college kids doing to those poor Yamaha sousaphones.

[bloke]

In high school - when one of us got a new mouthpiece (and just as with the "Lucy holding the football" routine) another of us would feign fascination, and ask the new mouthpiece acquirer to let us examine it.

Immediately, we would drop it on the floor.

(no damage, because we were up on an old filthy plywood parents-built riser...but still...)

I seem to recall that a new Conn Helleberg - back then - cost about $13 (yeah: the equivalent of $100, today).

[bloke]

...had to work on another ol' beater ybb-321 today...

[Cameron Gates]

...had to work on another ol' beater ybb-321 today...

Nothing more depressing.

My least favorite sight is an old, fine thread, long 3rd slide tubing, broken brace flange, frozen up, lime coated 321 POS.

My gem today was a new-ish little Jupiter tuba with the removable mouthpipe/valve set and an unsecured slip joint tenon at the bell/bottom bow joint. What a turd. All brace screws gone of course.

Kids can really destroy stuff with removable sections.

First things tomorrow are 5 new-ish King 606 trombone. I love these. Gonna be a good day.

[bloke]

...had to work on another ol' beater ybb-321 today...

Nothing more depressing.

My least favorite sight is an old, fine thread, long 3rd slide tubing, broken brace flange, frozen up, lime coated 321 POS.

My gem today was a new-ish little Jupiter tuba with the removable mouthpipe/valve set and an unsecured slip joint tenon at the bell/bottom bow joint. What a turd. All brace screws gone of course.

Kids can really destroy stuff with removable sections.

First things tomorrow are 5 new-ish King 606 trombone. I love these. Gonna be a good day.

WE ARE THE WORLD !!!!...