3v compensating euph

[Mary Ann]

Interested in, not ready to buy -- because it's not for me. Person just transitioning from trumpet to euph, is clearly a natural on euph and always struggled with range on trumpet. Wondering if someone has one sitting around unused. Playing condition needs to be very good, cosmetic way less important.

[LeMark]

I wish you had posted this when I had 4 euphoniums. Now that I have narrowed it down to 2, I think of my 3v compensating as my backup.

they are really fun little instruments, good luck with your search.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/405045618753?i ... R-K_-NmKZA

[bloke]

Most of those old Besson ones feature worn pistons.

If not "badly" worn, often worn enough to make a difference.

Willson - I'm thinking (??) - made a few...probably rare...

This one (based on lacquer) looks (??) to be less-played.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/405045618753

A phenonenon is parts "junkyards" on eBay.

If an upright bell is desired, the Yamaha and Jupiter ones are similar to Besson, and some of these "parts junkyard" eBay sellers will have those.

Here's a Besson bell for $250: https://www.ebay.com/itm/145442575875

...and here's a Yamaha bell for under $150: https://www.ebay.com/itm/324809174211

me...??
I'd play it with the recording bell...They're ultra-cool, and are more easily heard out front.

[Mary Ann]

It has to be bell up; for use in the brass band. I had found that Besson and know it would not be as welcome as a bell up. But thanks for the links. And -- my experience with Besson higher brass has been that it has awful intonation problems. I don't know if that applies to the 3v compers or not. You'd think that with a comp system there wouldn't be intonation problems, but I continue to be astonished at what is out there that has slide tubes too long or too short as part of the design.

[LeMark]

My experience with that model is the high f is usable, but it's more usable if you play it first and third, the d flat in the staff is flat on the older models but at some point they shortened the third valve slide to make it more usable but that came at the expense of making the B natural below it a little Sharp

[gocsick]

For the price it is going to be really tough to beat the JP274 (especially at, local to this board, dealer pricing). There are two people who have them in the low brass choir I have been playing with and I am really impressed. One of our first euphonium players says he wishes he bought a JP instead of paying more for an Adams Sonic (3+1 non-compensating).

Even the Jinbao euphoniums are great. I just acquired a Schiller compensating euphonium in a trade and it is a fantastic player. It will take quite a few years of practicing before the horn starts holding me back. But if I were buying new it would be a John Packer.

[LeMark]

I agree. Unless it's a weight issue, nothing beats the Packer euphoniums. Even the 174 with 4 valves (either 4 in a row or 3+1) are fabulous

[Mary Ann]

The reason I asked for a 3v comper is that he is very unlikely to use a 4th valve. He's been playing three pistons for probly 55 years -- and just wants one in tune like he could play his trumpets/cornets with the 1st and 3rd valve kickers. Maybe I'm asking for the moon. He also literally paid $50 for this Yam 201 at a thrift shop, which apparently was there because someone put a valve in wrong. All he had to do was turn the valve 90 degrees (that thing that is supposed to go in the slot was not) and it's perfect. Almost dentless, looks new from a distance, and its problem is that the 2nd valve slide is too long, and he can't adjust the tuning when using multiple valves. If he got a four valve comper, it would not solve the multi-valve intonation problems because the comp system doesn't kick in until the 4th valve is in use. So that's why a 3v comper, and I don't expect to find one he is willing to pay for, but thought I'd have the conversation. He could play my Sterling but doesn't want to. I play his 201 in the brass quintet because it is so much easier to play than the Sterling (ergonomics) and I can deal with the intonation. But I'm a lipper and don't expect anything to slot perfectly.

[bloke]

It's just hard to find an old Besson three valve compensating euphonium that doesn't have leaky valves, but that one that I showed you with a recording bell (eBay) looks like it might (??) have good valves based on the condition of the finish, which appears to be original.

I don't believe anyone else made three valve compensating other than an extremely limited number of Willson ones in the distant past.

Without reviewing the thread, I believe I already said all these things. Did you show your friend the link to the one with the recording bell?

...Everyone already knows that I view three valve compensating as the ideal tubas, euphoniums, and (even though no one ever made any) sousaphones for public schools, but they haven't been made in a long time by anyone - other than the English style baritones.

[LeMark]

It's funny how over time these horns have gone from being an afterthought of a bygone era to being appreciated and sought out. I've owned 3, and played one of those for many many years.
I liked how light they are and how at my height I could hold one of them elevated without ever getting tired.

If I wasn't playing so much advanced literature at this point that had extended low range, and teaching students that do, I could play and teach with one today

I could see a chinese plant turning out a modern version with a large Shank receiver and see a resurgence in them.

[bloke]

We regurgitate the same conversations, but (though redundant...)

Think how competitive the PLAYING of these marching bands (intonation, dynamics, phrasing) has become, yet they enter the fields with 3-valve sousaphones - still to this day - with #1 and #3 circuits way too long...or (rarely) 4-valve sousaphones, which don't completely fix the issues that a 3-valve compensating system fixes, and are way too heavy and way too delicate as well.

Further, think about the better-than-any-6/4-tuba false tones that sousaphones offer.

A 3-valve compensating sousaphone (just-about-in-tune C/B/F/E) would really be a damn-good thing, for concert use they (again) would play in tune and offer a nice big/round sound, and (for tryouts) the false tones (arguably) are more accessible than some 5-valve tubas' low ranges.

...a friend named Gene at a lesson - going over one of the more challenging orchestral excerpts:
"Why aren't you using a false tone for that?"

[bloke]

I've always been right there with you on the compensating 3v sousa idea. I think 4 valve sousas are a dumb idea

[Mary Ann]

And one mustn't forget that even rotary tubas have false tones that are usable, especially in oom pah music. That 183 that is still my back-up outdoor venue tuba has a really fine false tone on the low Ab. So good that the group I played the Octubafest music with thought I was playing a BBb. The NStar's false tone is not quite as good but is still usable for that in particular, where you punch it. A little fluffier sounding if I am the one holding it on a longer tone. And the notes below it down to the pedal in the same usage; less stable but also considerably less stuffy.

[bloke]

I'm not really bragging about my playing but about maybe my instrument, and maybe the fact that people who approach instruments that are just like mine try to approach them as if they are something else. I don't know if you remember, but someone said something about so-called German style F tubas having a weak low range and certainly no accessible false tones, or some such blather, and - as a reaction to that - I posted a video of me playing a bottom of staff F down to multiple ledger lines F using three valves and so-called false tones. I think it all sounded okay, though I wouldn't choose to play that way.

An accurate buzz - that relies on itself, rather than the instrument - and approaching an instrument for what it is - rather than trying to play it as if it's something else - often ends up offering really good results.

[bloke]

I've always been right there with you on the compensating 3v sousa idea. I think 4 valve sousas are a dumb idea

The most famous American concert wind band music director of all time used sousaphones - and Conn supplied him with some with four valves, but they were non-compensating, as the Blaikley System (invented 15 years earlier) had a 100-year patent...
...and - with four valves - Sousa's sousaphones (supplied by Conn) were exclusively concert (not marching) instruments.

Sousa resigned from the Marine Corps in 1892 to form his own civilian band. In a matter of months this band assumed a position of equality with the finest symphony orchestras of the day. It was a concert organization, not a marching band.

Particularly since around 1980 in the USA, there has been a huge-tubas craze...tubas with upright bells (as with Sousa's sousaphones), as large as large sousaphones, and with four valves or more. If concert band leaders objected to the more-directional 90-degree sousaphone bells which soon became the norm, it's pretty easy to outfit sousaphone bodies with upright bells, as was originally done and was done again later as an option. Me...?? I suspect that so-called "recording" bell tubas actually function better acoustically (including INDOORS) but we (tuba players) don't care for them particularly, because it's difficult for us to hear our own sound - when playing recording-belled tubas/sousaphones.

[bloke]

back to title topic:

In Memphis, there are ("suddenly") 9 breweries/micro-breweries with their own beer halls.

A long-retired (and now also retired from full-time teaching) principal DC band euphonium player just gave me a call about forming a quartet (similar to the San Antonio "Tubameisters") to circulate amongst those breweries (ie. $$$). I agreed to give it a shot.

The guy he's called to play the 2nd euphonium part is someone who (ages ago) bought a THREE-VALVE BESSON COMPENSATING euphonium NEW (when in high school). That player is now in his early 70's, and has remained one of the busiest TROMBONE players in town, but loves playing his euphonium. ...This same person has also stated that - on his tombstone - he would like the motto, "the consummate second trombonist" below his name and dates.

I sorta hinted that I would prefer to play the 4th part...
...I'm assuming that I might know (surely?) at least a FEW of the polkas/waltzes/other dance pieces/novelty pieces, and might be able to get by (after eight or ten such gigs) without starring at the music (particularly if playing the bass lines).

I believe the other tuba player might possibly own a Yamaha F and one of those coveted small-size and thin-walled Olds BB-flat sousaphones, so - if stand-up - either should work out well for playing the 3rd part. I have the compact Holton BB-flat (with stout strap rings carefully positioned to - with a simple strap - put the mouthpiece right on my mouth) and I always seem to additionally have some sort of full-size BB-flat sousaphone...so..."good". (Fat Bastard will NOT make the beer hall circuit.)

bloke "who doesn't like beer, but likes money...particularly when making money does not involve straightening out smashed-up brass instruments."
(oh yeah...and all of my cars are manual shift, so I should be "good to go" for Memphis parking lots. As long as I'm not shot, the carjackers will otherwise be confounded.)

[Mary Ann]

(oh yeah...and all of my cars are manual shift, so I should be "good to go" for Memphis parking lots. As long as I'm not shot, the carjackers will otherwise be confounded.)
------
Good reason to keep your ignition key separate from your key ring. Then at least they don't run off with your house keys when they are unable to drive the car.

[bloke]

You know I have a throw wallet. I don't think it's smart to carry a pistol in an urban area. The problem with shooting someone who attacks you in a city is that they have friends and family, other people will see you shoot them, and your name will be in the news. Additionally, I'll probably end up downtown because if they can't charge you with anything else they'll charge you with discharging a firearm in the city or something like that.

If you're attacked in the country and you shoot an attacker, all you really have to do is let the buzzards do their work, because it's not illegal to shoot in self-defense, so - as you wouldn't have committed a crime - there's no requirement to call the sheriff's office.

[Mary Ann]

This morning, playing for the Independence day parade.

[arpthark]

This morning, playing for the Independence day parade.

Did you lacquer strip that? What did you use if so? Looks good.