"New" Sousaphone from Lee Stofer

[iiipopes]

About three weeks ago I took delivery of a "new" real rebuilt mid-'60's Conn 36K from Lee Stofer. This has been a year-long project of acquiring suitable rebuildable parts, a donor horn, refinished bugle, etc., because I wanted a horn to play outdoor concerts the rest of my playing life. I had wanted one for years, but that is another story.

YES!!!

Off we go: the souzy's first concert was a regional community band festival some ways from where I live. After having had a few days to warm up to the horn (finding intonation quirks, matching a mouthpiece, etc.) It was off to the festival. The stage was concrete in front of a community building and had a complete tent cover. We played later in the afternoon, so I was able to judge the presence, resonance, and ability to support a band that the other band's tuba players could provide outdoors, all others with tubas (no souzys). The souzy performed absolutely amazing. Yes, the cover helped with the resonance as well as shield from the direct south-exposure sun. Of all the souzys I have played, which is just about every brass and 'glass domestic model made at various times since August of 1976 when I first started playing as a matriculating freshman in marching band in high school, this souzy has almost as big a tone as the 38K I had the use of some decades ago. It also has great response and once set, minimal throttle-riding of the slides. I experienced minimal, if any, tonal compromise usually associated with a 'glass bugle. I could feel the fundamental coming back to me, not as much as the 38K, but there; and the transition to the privilege tones was almost as smooth, with minimal (comparatively) graininess. Yes, minimal is the operative word: no fussing or fiddling, just playing properly supporting the band.

I could go on and on using too much bandwidth about everything Lee did to rebuild the souzy. Please let me cover the highlights and PM me for more details. The valves are all rebuilt and ported. I had never played vented valves before, so I was in for a great pleasant surprise on what the porting did for slurs and smoothing of intonation and articulation generally. I must have this done to my tuba. All down slides have water keys. All slide crooks (yes, including the 3rd valve wind around in addition to the 1st valve) have all been modified to be movable/removable, both for intonation and ease of cleaning, including outer tube adjustments to length to compensate for the added length of the ferrules. Why Conn never did this I will never know; I find it indispensable. The joint between the brass and 'glass has been completely re-worked, rebuilt, and strengthened. The improvement to stability of intonation is subtle, but it is there. Lee must have known how I prefer King finger buttons (I didn't tell him), because he replaced the Conn buttons with them; they look and feel great. And the lacquer refinishing made all the difference, hence the "new" description. I have seen new instruments that did not have the fit and finish of this souzy.

I have three mouthpieces for this souzy: a Kanstul made by Jim New Bach 18 derivative he made for me some years ago; a Klier Exclusive, and for cold weather, a Kelly 18. And finally, the light weight overall (the original selling point in 1960) makes this souzy most enjoyable over a long (in the case of the first concert with it 1 1/2 hours in 90+ heat, albeit with a breeze). Thanks again to Lee for a superlative rebuild!

[gocsick]

I also really like the RT sousapower 3 in the fiberglass Conns and Kings. If you ever go looking for new mouthpieces it might be worth checking out.

[bloke]

I've mentioned this too often, but I've always was drawn towards 36K, because that's what I played in high school, including concert band, because - back then - government didn't tax the hell out of the people (1% sales tax, $100 property tax on a $40,000 house, etc.), didn't load up schools with a bunch of fancy stuff that the children didn't need to be messing with, school years ran between dates where no air conditioning was needed (in order to keep utility bills down) and (no offense intended but) school teachers were paid for working 190 days whereas - if someone wanted to be paid for working 250 days - they got some other sort of job, or got summer jobs.
All of those those trolling and triggering phrases aside, since then, I've come to appreciate King with a bit more punch, a bit less effort, and easier intonation.

It's important to have those things checked over or to buy them from a good repairman like Lee, because it's pretty easy for one to leak and to just blame the dubious playing characteristics on one's self - or on fiberglass sousaphones in general...ie. resulting in making ignorant statements online such as "fiberglass sousaphones are crap", etc

Lee's a good person to buy something like that from, just as he is to buy something that's a lot fancier.

[Lee Stofer]

I'd like to thank iiipopes for his post. I found this to be a very interesting experiment, exploring what would happen if one tried
to re-do a fiberglass sousa to a higher standard. I found several things to be important, and am happy to share these points:

- the body-to valveset connection needs to be airtight. The connector ferrule on the sousa body, where the valveset and body meet,
is often cracked loose. If so, it should be removed, everything cleaned and de-greased, then I mix up some 2-part epoxy, but a thin coat
on the two parts, carefully insert, wipe off any excess inside or out, then leave it for 24-48 to cure. Many connections like this feature
O-rings to help with leaks, but I go a step further, using some grease that is so thick it's almost like fresh window caulking (really thick), coat
the inside- and outside of the connection, and slowly and carefully put that together. This has resulted in comments like, "I didn't think a
fiberglass sousa could sound this good!" - EVERY TIME.

- the mid' '60's Elkhart valveset was made with good brass, but in the interest of quick & inexpensive, there was no upper 1st slide, and the upper
3rd circuit not only had no slides, but had tubing and crooks soldered in at various angles, and not nearly 100% soldered. Eric & I spent quite a bit of time making upper slides for the valveset, then rebuilding the top end of the valveset, aligning everything to where bracses worked, slide tubes were
parallel and worked, and eliminated all leaks. There were no filler tubes inside the outer slide tubes on top, so we only had to get the insides of the
outer slide tubes cleaned and smoothed enough, and put together slides using the original crooks, ferrules from lengths cut from the outer slide tubes, and sections of inner slide tubing. My 1936 Martin sousaphone has all live slides, and thought this would be a very nice and useful touch for this sousa.
The first time you clean such a valveset, you'll appreciate the access to everything by merely pulling all the slide out, and it simplifies dent removal in crooks as well.

- I see so many of these, and other sousas with valve stems, corks and felts that range from "not quite right" to "ridiculous." Careful measurements and some perseverance will pay off in a vastly better-playing anything, including sousaphones. Piston valve venting affects some instruments more than others, but it was a good move on this sousa.

- the fasteners for the Conn banded brace system to hold the valveset in place utilizes two brass screws, one on each side that screw into a internally-
threaded steel tube, which rusts, and the brass screws get beaten up. Instead of this, after we chased the threads and cleaned & oiled the steel tubes, we used new stainless steel screws instead.

- the bracing for the upper 1st circuit tube to the 5th branch had one obstacle. By cutting the tube and making that the ferrule for a moveable slide there, this was exactly where the upper foot of the one-piece brace had been. I cut the brace in two, reversed the direction of the upper foot, brazed it back together, and the bracing was workable then.

- finally, the resulting horn played such, that now I plan to re-do a Conn 22K like this, for my own use.

[bloke]

Yeah, the best playing King sousaphone I ever played was the one that I sort of reluctantly sold just recently because of University needed more than they had. It had all this slides on all the upper returns and all the extra stuff that you would expect from a body that was made in the late 40s - when sousaphones were considered just as so-called "professional" any other type of tuba, and tubas really weren't classified as student or professional, and only divided into sizes and weights. My King also had the copper valves, but I thought those would freak out anyone who might buy it, so I had them nickel plated. Particularly in flat keys, those things really behave nicely with the tuner. There are a bunch of sousaphone and B-flat (and fiberglass) snobs, but I'm too old to worry about those people... They're just a bunch of Americans who've been subjected to American academia, so whatever in regards to them.
All these trombone players are showing off their carbon fiber this and their carbon fiber that, but we're supposed to be ashamed of our fiberglass this and that.

I'm eventually going to get myself a 1990s King fiberglass sousaphone with good valves. I had a long rack of those things about fifteen years ago and stupidly sold off every one - not keeping one for myself. I know where I sold three of them (a small super fancy-pants private school... one of those places where they underpay teachers and overcharge parents.) I wonder if they need all three, or what they might prefer instead of one of them...??

looks??
I've always been enamored with those factory gold painted fiberglass sousaphones, but I can pretend like everybody else pretends and say "I only care about the sound".

[iiipopes]

I also really like the RT sousapower 3 in the fiberglass Conns and Kings. If you ever go looking for new mouthpieces it might be worth checking out.

I appreciate that you get good results out of Bob's Sousapower 3. It is similar to a Bach 18 designed for more projection with its "pear" cup, 1.26 inside rim diameter, and a slightly smaller, more manageable throat than a stock 18. But for me, since I am decades beyond marching, a mouthpiece specifically designed for a souzy is overhyped. For decades, if it were a King, we played a 25 on the field. If it were a Conn, we played a Helleberg, a #2, or a #7B. And so forth with the other brands; essentially the stock tuba mouthpiece. There were no "sousaphone" mouthpieces. This fad of "sousaphone" mouthpieces I am sure is driven by the corp bands and getting the maximum projection on the field. Make no mistake. I marched with Marching Mizzou for a season, so I know what it takes to project a 20K to a full NCAA Division I stadium. I even considered a first-generation LM-7, but the throat is large enough that I can't fill it anymore. And Bob does not make a Sousapower in my preferred rim diameter, 1.28. Moreover, at this point, I need foundation in an outdoor concert band context, not just projection. My embouchure requires a 1.28 inches, 32.5 millimeter, inside rim diameter. Smaller and I lose flexibility and low range; larger and I lose projection and upper range. At this point in life, my lungs require a .323 inches / 8.2 millimeter / P drill bit for my lungs to provide proper support. I have tried or played just about every 1.28 i.d. mouthpiece that exists, including Bob's 1st generation PT-82 and current RT-82, and the Custom Tuba (deeper cup) version of a PT-82, and many, many others. The current RT-82 is a great mouthpiece for a true 6/4 tuba or a pre-war 38K/40K Conn. But for my embouchure, it is too grainy or edgy for everything else. I am fortunate to have the means that the mouthpiece cost is not an issue. Hell, I even have a Parduba if I want buzz saw tone. The mouthpieces I listed work for me. I am glad the RT works for you. For everyone else, YMMV. Try everything. These are my observations from 48 years of playing souzy.

[iiipopes]

Yeah, the best playing King sousaphone I ever played was the one that I sort of reluctantly sold just recently because of University needed more than they had. It had all this slides on all the upper returns and all the extra stuff that you would expect from a body that was made in the late 40s - when sousaphones were considered just as so-called "professional" any other type of tuba, and tubas really weren't classified as student or professional, and only divided into sizes and weights. My King also had the copper valves, but I thought those would freak out anyone who might buy it, so I had them nickel plated. Particularly in flat keys, those things really behave nicely with the tuner. There are a bunch of sousaphone and B-flat (and fiberglass) snobs, but I'm too old to worry about those people... They're just a bunch of Americans who've been subjected to American academia, so whatever in regards to them.
All these trombone players are showing off their carbon fiber this and their carbon fiber that, but we're supposed to be ashamed of our fiberglass this and that.

I'm eventually going to get myself a 1990s King fiberglass sousaphone with good valves. I had a long rack of those things about fifteen years ago and stupidly sold off every one - not keeping one for myself. I know where I sold three of them (a small super fancy-pants private school... one of those places where they underpay teachers and overcharge parents.) I wonder if they need all three, or what they might prefer instead of one of them...??

looks??
I've always been enamored with those factory gold painted fiberglass sousaphones, but I can pretend like everybody else pretends and say "I only care about the sound".

Having played specimens from all the different generations: the oldest King 'glass souzys, if you can find one that hasn't been trashed, have a real 'glass bugle and play the best, even if they are a pound or two heavier. Because of the different wrap of the leadpipe, getting a "ride throttle" first valve slide is more problematic, and you have the same 3rd valve circuit contortions that also require the "King spin." Of course you know that, but I wanted to post because these issues are a couple of the many reasons I chose an Elkhart 36K instead of a King.

[bloke]

I think the upper number one slide is really cool for sousaphones, but I have to tell you the honest truth - which is that I mostly only use one in brass band applications and marching through crazy Mardi Gras parades where everybody in the band is playing "louder than they can possibly play" and the snare drum is even louder, so I probably wouldn't ever touch that slide. If I used it for more intonation-important applications - and particularly if I had a 36k where the second space c needed attention - I would want that slide, I believe.

Some people remember that C helicon that I built and used on all sorts of jobs and then eventually sold to a gentleman up in Oregon. I used that first slide all the time and used the third slide for the 2nd partial a flat, as 2nd partials with two three are usually sharper then the other partials on tubas. I used that instrument to play a lot of music where intonation really mattered, including recordings - where a sort of funky tone sounded better than the tuba tone, but recordings just need to be in tune.

Again, getting one that's picked over by Lee - rather than just buying one surplus and asking the freak jury if they have a neck and bits for sale - is the way to go. I've had buskers bring their sousaphones in and I treated them as seriously and sincerely as everyone else. A friend of mine who've been busking for decades with a 26k E-flat finally managed to nab a 28k. I spent a few hours on that thing, and - when I was finished addressing things that I felt needed addressing - I was more than sort of coveting it. They just need this and that, and sometimes they need a circuit shortened or a couple of circuits shortened and - all the sudden - they rock and roll.