Alexander in C
Forum rules
This section is for posts that are directly related to performance, performers, or equipment. Social issues are allowed, as long as they are directly related to those categories. If you see a post that you cannot respond to with respect and courtesy, we ask that you do not respond at all.
This section is for posts that are directly related to performance, performers, or equipment. Social issues are allowed, as long as they are directly related to those categories. If you see a post that you cannot respond to with respect and courtesy, we ask that you do not respond at all.
Alexander in C
I just spent some time with my Alex BBb this morning. It has absolutely the sound I am searching for, but I will never be fluent in BBb, so I want the same sound in C. Do the Cs have the same rich sound as the BBb horns do? I know the pitch issues are bad at times, but it's been 40+ years since I have heard one live.
Last edited by Stryk on Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Terry Stryker
Mirafone 186C, 186BBb, 184C, 186C clone
Gebr. Alexander New 163C, Vintage 163C, Vintage 163BBb
Amati 481C
Lyon & Healy 6/4
Kane Stealth tuba
A plethora of others....
Mirafone 186C, 186BBb, 184C, 186C clone
Gebr. Alexander New 163C, Vintage 163C, Vintage 163BBb
Amati 481C
Lyon & Healy 6/4
Kane Stealth tuba
A plethora of others....
Re: Alex C
OOPS - LOL
Terry Stryker
Mirafone 186C, 186BBb, 184C, 186C clone
Gebr. Alexander New 163C, Vintage 163C, Vintage 163BBb
Amati 481C
Lyon & Healy 6/4
Kane Stealth tuba
A plethora of others....
Mirafone 186C, 186BBb, 184C, 186C clone
Gebr. Alexander New 163C, Vintage 163C, Vintage 163BBb
Amati 481C
Lyon & Healy 6/4
Kane Stealth tuba
A plethora of others....
- bloke
- Mid South Music
- Posts: 19511
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
- Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
- Has thanked: 3918 times
- Been thanked: 4172 times
Re: Alexander in C
Most any tuba or trumpet with a very similar body and bell - in both B-flat and C-versions - tends to emit a more bright sound in the C version. Oddly – at least to me - the 6/4 tubas seem to be the exceptions, as (at least - to my ears) the C versions seem to emit a more dull sound.
- bort2.0
- Posts: 5263
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:13 am
- Location: Minneapolis
- Has thanked: 336 times
- Been thanked: 1002 times
Re: Alexander in C
I'm not sure how to answer your question, but I would just say to GO FOR IT and buy an Alexander CC if you get the chance. Seems like they come in waves... nothing for a while, then several all at once.
I bought mine about 6 months ago, and I've loved every second with it, because of the sound. It's full, rich, and lively... is that identical to the BBb? I dunno... but it's going to be a whole lot more similar than different.
I bought mine about 6 months ago, and I've loved every second with it, because of the sound. It's full, rich, and lively... is that identical to the BBb? I dunno... but it's going to be a whole lot more similar than different.
Re: Alexander in C
It is. The first time I played it, I thought "that's the sound". The BBb has very minor pitch issues, how about your C? I have heard horror stories about some of them.
Terry Stryker
Mirafone 186C, 186BBb, 184C, 186C clone
Gebr. Alexander New 163C, Vintage 163C, Vintage 163BBb
Amati 481C
Lyon & Healy 6/4
Kane Stealth tuba
A plethora of others....
Mirafone 186C, 186BBb, 184C, 186C clone
Gebr. Alexander New 163C, Vintage 163C, Vintage 163BBb
Amati 481C
Lyon & Healy 6/4
Kane Stealth tuba
A plethora of others....
-
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:51 pm
- Has thanked: 10 times
- Been thanked: 14 times
Re: Alexander in C
Terry,
I've owned multiple Alexander CC tubas, but only one Alex BBb so I feel like I should chime in here. And I still play an Alex CC as my main tuba (almost 20 years on it!). They are all pretty different from instrument to instrument not just from BBb to CC. While it is true that some Alexander's have major pitch issues, most of them are very workable. They seem to be designed with a more traditional German approach. I'll try and explain that a little better.
Every good, large bore German BBb that I have played has a few similar characteristics (All Alexanders, Big Mirafones, my current Rudy 5/4 BBb too, etc). The one you mentioned (a rich dark sound) is the most prominent to us as tuba players. The others are more subtle but still present in rotary BBb's.
The tuning slide lengths are set up at the factory to be closer to a 3 valve tuba with a slightly longer 4th valve wrap. By this I mean that the 2-4 combo is usually tuned slightly sharp and the 4th valve alone is usually slightly flat. It is often the case that the 4th valve slide is long enough that you can adjust it for both of those notes to be played in tune. (While this is true on most large CC tubas now, that was not always the case.) Even on my 5 valve Alex 163 I think of it as a 4 valve tuba with an extra "tuning" valve.
A common fingering for German players/tubas is to use 3rd valve for most 1-2 combos. It goes a step further though, you have to be open to playing notes with a 1-3 combo instead of 4. On my Alexander CC I can play a good G at the bottom of the staff open. But the G below that is better if played 1-3.... it works ok with 4 but is more centered 1-3. (This isn't just an Alexander problem, most York style 6/4's I've played have a better D below staff when fingered 1-2-5. So what. )
The thought process of playing one of these well with good pitch is similar to how you should approach a 6 valve F tuba. There is a valve combination that just works in tune for every note, do that one all the time!
The elephant in the room really come from what Bloke alluded to; an early Alex CC is really a cut BBb. They have very similar tonal qualities but usually tend to be a little brighter because of the shorter length. I think the pitch inconsistencies come from the transitions not being well laid out and effecting the taper. The better in tune Alexander CC's that I have played and owned are the ones that have slightly smaller leadpipes and smaller top bows. But since Alexanders are pretty rare anyway, finding a good one is a challenge. The people that own good ones don't often sell them.
cheers,
Brendan
I've owned multiple Alexander CC tubas, but only one Alex BBb so I feel like I should chime in here. And I still play an Alex CC as my main tuba (almost 20 years on it!). They are all pretty different from instrument to instrument not just from BBb to CC. While it is true that some Alexander's have major pitch issues, most of them are very workable. They seem to be designed with a more traditional German approach. I'll try and explain that a little better.
Every good, large bore German BBb that I have played has a few similar characteristics (All Alexanders, Big Mirafones, my current Rudy 5/4 BBb too, etc). The one you mentioned (a rich dark sound) is the most prominent to us as tuba players. The others are more subtle but still present in rotary BBb's.
The tuning slide lengths are set up at the factory to be closer to a 3 valve tuba with a slightly longer 4th valve wrap. By this I mean that the 2-4 combo is usually tuned slightly sharp and the 4th valve alone is usually slightly flat. It is often the case that the 4th valve slide is long enough that you can adjust it for both of those notes to be played in tune. (While this is true on most large CC tubas now, that was not always the case.) Even on my 5 valve Alex 163 I think of it as a 4 valve tuba with an extra "tuning" valve.
A common fingering for German players/tubas is to use 3rd valve for most 1-2 combos. It goes a step further though, you have to be open to playing notes with a 1-3 combo instead of 4. On my Alexander CC I can play a good G at the bottom of the staff open. But the G below that is better if played 1-3.... it works ok with 4 but is more centered 1-3. (This isn't just an Alexander problem, most York style 6/4's I've played have a better D below staff when fingered 1-2-5. So what. )
The thought process of playing one of these well with good pitch is similar to how you should approach a 6 valve F tuba. There is a valve combination that just works in tune for every note, do that one all the time!
The elephant in the room really come from what Bloke alluded to; an early Alex CC is really a cut BBb. They have very similar tonal qualities but usually tend to be a little brighter because of the shorter length. I think the pitch inconsistencies come from the transitions not being well laid out and effecting the taper. The better in tune Alexander CC's that I have played and owned are the ones that have slightly smaller leadpipes and smaller top bows. But since Alexanders are pretty rare anyway, finding a good one is a challenge. The people that own good ones don't often sell them.
cheers,
Brendan
Re: Alexander in C
I appreciate the insight. I can understand a lot of what you said, as I have owned a Mirafone of some sort since my second year of college. (45 or so years). The 184 is pretty spot on, but the 186, not so much and adult fingerings are required. That part is very familiar.
The used 186 I got in 1975 was the same - it came with a BBb conversion slide. That speaks volumes.Brendan Bohnhorst wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:53 am The elephant in the room really come from what Bloke alluded to; an early Alex CC is really a cut BBb.
Right now, it's just a quest for that type of sound. If I find one at a decent price, I may grab it just to give it a try. My wife describes the sound of my Alex as full and mellow, while the Mirafone to her is "harsh". For now, I have a 186 that I love, among other horns, but none of them give me that sound that I want - except the Alex. In tune is first for me, and that the Mirafone does well with VERY little slide manipulation. However, I think we all search for that quintessential sound that the Alex gives so well - I know I do.Brendan Bohnhorst wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:53 am But since Alexanders are pretty rare anyway, finding a good one is a challenge. The people that own good ones don't often sell them.
Terry Stryker
Mirafone 186C, 186BBb, 184C, 186C clone
Gebr. Alexander New 163C, Vintage 163C, Vintage 163BBb
Amati 481C
Lyon & Healy 6/4
Kane Stealth tuba
A plethora of others....
Mirafone 186C, 186BBb, 184C, 186C clone
Gebr. Alexander New 163C, Vintage 163C, Vintage 163BBb
Amati 481C
Lyon & Healy 6/4
Kane Stealth tuba
A plethora of others....
-
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:32 am
- Location: Maryland
- Has thanked: 283 times
- Been thanked: 39 times
Re: Alexander in C
Hello Terry,
The short answer is (in my opinion) yes the Alexander C tubas have the Alexander sound. Like any tuba you should check and see if the intonation (I have not had problems with my Alex C's intonation and I have been playing it since 1975) but different people have different ideas for what they want.
Best,
Mark
The short answer is (in my opinion) yes the Alexander C tubas have the Alexander sound. Like any tuba you should check and see if the intonation (I have not had problems with my Alex C's intonation and I have been playing it since 1975) but different people have different ideas for what they want.
Best,
Mark
Life Member Baltimore Musician's Union Local 40-543
Life Member International Tuba Euphonium Association (ITEA)
Ph.D. Experimental Psychology, Behavioral Neuroscience (a musician can do almost anything!)
Life Member International Tuba Euphonium Association (ITEA)
Ph.D. Experimental Psychology, Behavioral Neuroscience (a musician can do almost anything!)