Eastman buys Willson

[Coltasaurus]

Probably old news for some, but I was surprised to see that on Willson’s website.

[bloke]

We can only guess. I certainly don't know anything about how much business they had done up until being sold, and certainly don't know much of anything about that in recent times. I noticed that they ran a whole bunch of ads on a Facebook page that was supposedly for just discussing things, and the people who ran the page allowed them to do so. I remember when wwbw was shoveling those euphoniums out the door, when they seemed to be super popular across the board with military musicians, a particular military musician was really promoting them, and I also remember when deg, the Importer, floorplanned whole bunch of those to wwbw, reportedty didn't get paid for them, and probably Kurath didn't get paid for them. I've never really suspected that they sold a whole bunch of tubas, but truly I have no idea about that. More than physically, I've always found them (all models) to involve pretty heavy lifting. Further, I've never suspected (??) that they sold a bunch of any of their other products, though some of them we're pretty interesting. As an example, I thought they made a really nice bass trombone, but it wasn't particularly designed for blatting - which people seem to like to do with those things. I don't see any reason for a company that can make things for less in Asia to keep any production in a country where production costs so much more. The euphoniums are good instruments - and (even as a doubler) I made some pretty good money over the years using mine, yet I sold it and purchased a different one fairly recently...They seem to have sort of fallen out of favor as the go-to euphonium, have they not?
The same Asian company also saved an American boutique trombone maker, yes?

In summary, personally I always really associated them with euphoniums and viewed everything else as parenthetical during the time that they were really high profile. My mind is now wandering off to a coastal European company that was formerly mostly known for percussion, bought all the tooling from another Swiss brass instrument maker that was formerly mostly known for tubas, and now seems to have flipped things around to where that line is also now mostly known for euphoniums.

As a post script, I'm also thinking that the Swiss manufacturer of your topic relied heavily on one retailer (mentioned above) really selling a ton of their euphoniums, and another Swiss manufacturer (mentioned towards the end of this response) really relying heavily on one American retailer selling a ton of their tubas. Both of those retailers no longer exist.

[Sousaswag]

I think Willson made a good move. They’re now more visible than they’ve ever been, and their tubas are getting out there. However, Willson would be more popular IF:

1) They ditched all the weird, gimmicky stuff about their tubas (rotohead linkage, Rotax valves, etc)

2) Their big tubas didn’t weigh so much

3) A big name endorsed them

4) Their horns didn’t cost so much brand new and didn’t depreciate so much when they’re used, probably due to the lack of popularity thing

5) They fixed some of the ergonomic woes of their rotary tubas

Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE my 3200 rotor F, but I’ve had a LOT of modifications made to it to “un-Willson” the thing. Cut down the rotax valves, change the linkage, thumb ring moved, etc.

[arpthark]

Maybe Mr. Kurath should run over all of his tubas and have them put back together, prior to offering them for sale?

[Sousaswag]

Maybe Mr. Kurath should run over all of his tubas and have them put back together, prior to offering them for sale?

That would certainly thin out the brass he uses

[Schlitzz]

Tastes in ideal playing characteristics have changed over the years. The latest rounds of ownership changes is more about brand/design handoff, as the original owners are at, past retirement age. When I was playing full time, the debate was about the shank size, medium, versus large. Kinda interesting to have followed that my euphonium, is nearly identical, on the inside, to the current ones, made by the former percussion only company. They bought the tooling, designs, the works.

The trombone company thrived at first, but they are only a volume production outfit, questionable QC, at this point. They quit doing custom work. So that leaves us with the Wisconsin outfits.

FWIW, I see design changes coming with more use of carbon fiber. I have a 50B copy with a CF bell, valves from one of the Wisconsin shops, and in progress still, a dual bore 50 length slide, that needs the CF outer.

I know a lot guitar people that love their CF stuff, along with a famous cello player. I think it kinda odd that we haven’t seen them yet as full blown horns, other than Da Carbo. Time will tell.

[bloke]

subtopic: "plastic-like" (any/all) materials used to make "brass" instruments

You won't see me berating/condemning any of those types of things.

I have only mentioned that - when I stick my head near the bell of a fiberglass sousaphone - there's sometimes a different type of "after-sound" (reminiscent of the type of sound heard when yelling through a piece of PVC pipe) which I do not hear with brass sousaphones...and (OTOH) there's never any brass-sousaphone "after-ring" with fiberglass ones.

...so (again), I don't scoff-at or blanket-criticize alternate-materials "brass" instruments.

[Schlitzz]

I have played one of Chuck's carbon fiber Canadian brass tubas. It was a LOT of fun.

[Schlitzz]

I REALLY need one of those in BBb.

[bloke]

I thought it was hilarious when the bell fell off of one of them in a performance, particularly as he was already clowning around with it.

- perhaps not ready for prime time...
- if the acoustical design and/or tuning characteristics aren't that wonderful (and I choose to be no more specific, here) it's not going to matter what materials are used to fabricate an instrument.

positive example:
I like KING fiberglass sousaphones (from the 90's - when they were fiberglass) because:
- They (were) lightweight.
- The sound and tuning were (per King sousaphones in general) good.


bloke "...so did Eastman buy Willson in order to make all the Willson instruments weigh less via carbon-fiber?"
(only making light of how topics - here - never remain "the topics")

[MiBrassFS]

Maybe there was no next generation that wanted to continue the business?

Seems a shame that Willi and Willi Jr. (the Wills in Willson…) Kurath didn’t have another Willi or Willhelmina (or other family member, etc.) that could grow the business to stand alone health. I like family businesses. I like small businesses. I support them when ever possible and practical.

I’ve owned a few Willson instruments. I have a 3400 that was part of the DC Navy Band fleet. It’s a very delightful tuba. I’m glad it was built when it was built and that I bought it when I did.

[Schlitzz]

Yes, CF versus brass, is a light er topic.

[bloke]

Maybe there was no next generation that wanted to continue the business?

Seems a shame that Willi and Willi Jr. (the Wills in Willson…) Kurath didn’t have another Willi or Willhelmina (or other family member, etc.) that could grow the business to stand alone health. I like family businesses. I like small businesses. I support them when ever possible and practical.

I’ve owned a few Willson instruments. I have a 3400 that was part of the DC Navy Band fleet. It’s a very delightful tuba. I’m glad it was built when it was built and that I bought it when I did.

"Several generations" is the exception. Of course, Gerhard had no offspring - thus a sale to Buffet.
No Conn, Holton, Martin, Bach, Bundy, or Buescher descendants own any of those companies or brands.
Steinway bought all of those, and some company (family-owned...yes? no?) called Paulson (I believe it's a hedge fund) owns them.

It's really easy to pontificate stuff like "Well that's a damn shame and wuts wrong with muricuh - etc., etc...", but who (that posts crap like that) stepped up and BOUGHT even ONE of those companies...??

[MiBrassFS]

Maybe there was no next generation that wanted to continue the business?

Seems a shame that Willi and Willi Jr. (the Wills in Willson…) Kurath didn’t have another Willi or Willhelmina (or other family member, etc.) that could grow the business to stand alone health. I like family businesses. I like small businesses. I support them when ever possible and practical.

I’ve owned a few Willson instruments. I have a 3400 that was part of the DC Navy Band fleet. It’s a very delightful tuba. I’m glad it was built when it was built and that I bought it when I did.

"Several generations" is the exception. Of course, Gerhard had no offspring - thus a sale to Buffet.
No Conn, Holton, Martin, Bach, Bundy, or Buescher descendants own any of those companies or brands.
Steinway bought all of those, and some company (family-owned...yes? no?) called Paulson (I believe it's a hedge fund) owns them.

It's really easy to pontificate stuff like "Well that's a damn shame and wuts wrong with muricuh - etc., etc...", but who (that posts crap like that) stepped up and BOUGHT even ONE of those companies...??

I think you ignored my first line to suit your current mood. (My comment was directed at the OP.) No one wants it? No one exists? Why not sell it? Is there another or better choice? Not to me. The Kuraths are in Switzerland. Gerhard is in Germany. There was no mention by me of “what’s wrong with the US.” This isn’t a “US” thing. My comment is about supporting small business when possible and appreciating family heritage. If that’s pontificating to you, too bad.

[bloke]

I don't see how I disagreed with you at all...

my mindset: not-at-all "USA vs. Europe"...only: "family businesses staying in the family"

OK...I mentioned makers' names which - to many of us - are more household (pedestrian?) but - again - only broadening what I though to be your point...with even broader agreement.

bloke "puzzled, and only under the impression that I was agreeing...(??)"




tuba topical?
Think of ALL the MANY models of tubas that C.G. Conn manufactured in the past (probably more variety than the most prolific current makers of electric bass guitars). Every time we think we've got a handle on all the stuff that he made, yet another not-seen-before model is uncovered. I believe C.G. Conn had his "heart" in his business (in the same way that we view Europeans and their instrument manufacturing businesses). How could he not, yet make so very many shapes and sizes of those instruments which took the most time/trouble to build?
The Buescher family felt so connected to their customers that the ran a line in their ads teaching their customers how to properly pronounce their name.
(again: supportive of the gist of your post - not disagreeing with...unless I just don't get it...?? )

[MiBrassFS]

If you’re agreeing, it was me that didn’t get your comment.

“The written English word can be less than adequate at times…”

[Coltasaurus]

Maybe there was no next generation that wanted to continue the business?

Seems a shame that Willi and Willi Jr. (the Wills in Willson…) Kurath didn’t have another Willi or Willhelmina (or other family member, etc.) that could grow the business to stand alone health. I like family businesses. I like small businesses. I support them when ever possible and practical.

I’ve owned a few Willson instruments. I have a 3400 that was part of the DC Navy Band fleet. It’s a very delightful tuba. I’m glad it was built when it was built and that I bought it when I did.

I also have one of the Navy 3400’s.

[MiBrassFS]

No kidding! That’s great. Is yours in silver or lacquer? When I got mine, it was set up really strangely. Like someone wanted it to play badly. All the valves were a mile out of alignment with a bunch of extra felts and corks. Once it was dialed in, it turned out to be a terrific instrument.

[Coltasaurus]

Mine is silver. I really think it must have spent a lot of time in the case in a closet as there’s nary a scratch on it. There is no way it was played much and appears stock as made.
It’s the first Eb I’ve ever owned, so still trying to get used to it, but sounds great.

[MiBrassFS]

Mine is in lacquer. It’s the only one like it I’ve ever seen in person. Like yours, it looks like new, too. Only conjecture, but I have to imagine they were purchased with ME’s suggestion/influences and then then sat unused as the “new kids” were F players. As a side note, my F was also a DC Navy band instrument from the same era. It’s also in like new shape and a great player.