stands

[peterbas]

... and generating extra electricity puts carbon into the atmosphere... and we certainly can't have that, because carbon in the atmosphere encourages plants to grow.

I honestly have no idea how to process this random aside. Is this serious? Is this sarcasm? Is this relevant? Is this a legitimate argument against whatever you are disagreeing with?

He is just trying to scare you away from the forum like he did with dozens of other people.
Not a troll but a 'Nelson'.

[Colby Fahrenbacher]

... and generating extra electricity puts carbon into the atmosphere... and we certainly can't have that, because carbon in the atmosphere encourages plants to grow.

I honestly have no idea how to process this random aside. Is this serious? Is this sarcasm? Is this relevant? Is this a legitimate argument against whatever you are disagreeing with?

He is just trying to scare you away from the forum like he did with dozens of other people.
Not a troll but a 'Nelson'.

Ah but if he scares everyone away with his deranged and incessant nonsense, who will he have left to troll?

I'm a big fan of using a tablet for performance. I use an iPad (albeit I should get a bigger one someday) that I mount on a mic stand with an Air Turn Manos tablet holder. It can clamp both to the side of the stand so you can still attach a mic at the end, or can screw on in place of the mic. The hardware seems incredibly sturdy but very adjustable, and a mic stand has a way wider base than any music stand I've ever seen.

In addition to being more stable because of the wider base and catching less wind because of the lower profile, it also reduces the weight on the stand in many cases (but not all, depending on the gig). Anyone who has played gigs out of a large gig book of 200+ charts knows how much of pain they can be to haul around and how top-heavy the stand becomes. Heck, I put a pipe clamp on the stem of one of my regular stands so the desk wouldn't fall mid performance. They also can be a pain to find charts in if someone didn't take the time beforehand to organize them properly. Modern music reader makes finding charts easier by letting you build custom set lists that orders the PDFs, in addition to standard automatic alphabetization.

Not to mention you can have your entire library on hand at a moments notice.

[Colby Fahrenbacher]

To Bloke's credit, the K&M collapsible stands are way better than the cheap wire stands that we all probably started on, and I think it's important to not conflate the two. They are definitely more durable, just as convenient (if not more since the desk folders over the body instead of coming apart and getting lost) to set up, and just as compact. The fact that you can use magnets with them is a nice touch, and K&M sells a strong set of magnets for holding down music. They don't work as well with a bulky folder or a lot of music on the stand but are fantastic when you can use them.

That said, I use my K&M stand as a "break in case of emergency" rather than my go-to. I always have one in the car in case something weird happens at a gig, but if I know I need to provide my own stand, I bring my full desk Manhassat with collapsible legs. I find them to be sturdier, more reliable, and can handle more weight. Personally, I think they also look more professional on stage, particularly if the folders are not black.

But as I said previously, my default is really my iPad, which has been a fantastic experience.

[bloke]

peterbas regularly bathes in my trolls. He seems to come and go, and seems to return when - once again - he seems to feel that he's in need of yet another good cleansing. Anyone "afraid" of me is - likely - afraid of their own shadow. Colby certainly isn't, and - I'd wager - will become better-and-better at sorting out my trolls.

non-troll concise-as-possible comment: Collapsible stands are a necessary evil. I'm personally not going to acquire anything that (my dealer cost) exceeds $20 (in hyper-inflated current monetary cost) nor takes up more storage space than the one that I have chosen, and certainly nothing that is too large to hide underneath a car seat - where it is permanently stored.

If those who hire me are interested in me using something larger/fatter/heavier/deeper-shelved/whatever, they can (and - almost always do) supply it.

non-troll continued: I do view the tack of drilling holes in all three feet of the orchestra's Manhassets and temporarily screwing them down (during an outdoor orchestra dress rehearsal - once musician-positioned) to the portable stage (via 3" deck screws w/washers) as a clever anti-disaster (again: six-figure-value stringed instruments and nearly-that-valuable bassoons in play, and not just a bunch of Chinese-made wind instruments) tack. I also appreciate (closed-street festival/event orchestra-sponsored brass quintet jobs, etc.) the stage manager bringing the stands, the chairs, AND the cinder blocks.

[tokuno]

But as I said previously, my default is really my iPad, which has been a fantastic experience.

Disclosure: We're an iPad family - I'm on a 10th gen and when our kids were home, we had 3 or 4 of 'em floating around the household.
i.e. I'm neither anti- tech nor eMusic.

But . . . cautionary anecdote:

Three years ago, the July 4th band that I muster (>120 musicians that year) held its "Saturday-prior" 10:00AM rehearsal outdoors on the quad of a local school (open - no shade).
Late June in California - sunny and warm mornings. About an hour into the rehearsal, there was a mad scramble for the bin of hardcopy music packets, because the thermal switches tripped on the eMusic devices.

On the other hand, if/when iPads become water resistant, backlit music on an iPad mini would be great for Christmas caroling in misty weather (currently have a number of wrinkly caroling books and it'd be great to not blind each other and the spectators with headlamps).

[tadawson]

The biggest issue I have with tablets is that as I age, my astigmatism (and other fun things) put my stand in a place that I need to use my computer glasses to be clear, and then the conductor is a bit of a blur. Bifocals have the line in the wrong place, and the head movement screws up my embouchure, and "normal" glasses make the sheet music look more like smudged paper. Enter the tablet . . . . I spend a lot of time on mine (not Apple - can't stand 'em . . .) and for a normal size tab on a stand, it's like reading microfische, or only 2 or 3 lines at once. Short of a 20 inch tablet, not sure I could make that work . . .

Isn't aging *fun*?

[Mary Ann]

Many people put the bifocal at the top, but it requires a lab that is willing and able to show as little of the bifocal as you need, and the one called the Executive is common.
I ordered a pair of glasses once and the measured / ordered height of the line was 8mm, but when the glasses came in it was at 10mm. I said this is wrong, and they said oh the least we can do is 10, but rather than telling me that before I placed the order, they took my money and gave me what they wanted to (for the last time, of course.) Just saying that so you will check ahead of time that they will do what you want.

[peterbas]

peterbas regularly bathes in my trolls. He seems to come and go, and seems to return when - once again - he seems to feel that he's in need of yet another good cleansing. Anyone "afraid" of me is - likely - afraid of their own shadow. Colby certainly isn't, and - I'd wager - will become better-and-better at sorting out my trolls.

non-troll concise-as-possible comment: Collapsible stands are a necessary evil. I'm personally not going to acquire anything that (my dealer cost) exceeds $20 (in hyper-inflated current monetary cost) nor takes up more storage space than the one that I have chosen, and certainly nothing that is too large to hide underneath a car seat - where it is permanently stored.

If those who hire me are interested in me using something larger/fatter/heavier/deeper-shelved/whatever, they can (and - almost always do) supply it.

non-troll continued: I do view the tack of drilling holes in all three feet of the orchestra's Manhassets and temporarily screwing them down (during an outdoor orchestra dress rehearsal - once musician-positioned) to the portable stage (via 3" deck screws w/washers) as a clever anti-disaster (again: six-figure-value stringed instruments and nearly-that-valuable bassoons in play, and not just a bunch of Chinese-made wind instruments) tack. I also appreciate (closed-street festival/event orchestra-sponsored brass quintet jobs, etc.) the stage manager bringing the stands, the chairs, AND the cinder blocks.

Every time I wiped the floor with you when real science comes up, you shift in your bully mode.
Anybody remember how many pro players used to be on the old forum? Yup, Bloke got rid of almost all of them.
Playing the childish "chicken" game to get Colby on your side
Remembering all those post of how to conduct as a professional player, but spending 500 dollars for a windproof stand+tablet seems too much to look professional.
No, I just put 3 screws in the stage, now that is a pro

[bloke]

Every time I attempt to discuss music - and you throw up charts and graphs, I troll you.

Show me the tubas you've built and post some your own recordings whereby your charts and graphs have assisted in making them undebatably (unanimously peer-reviewed as) "the absolutely end". ...I'll study the charts and graphs, based on the evidence.

Music - and instrument design - have always been trial-and-error. There are just too many variables, just too many things that cannot be controlled down to the last .001%, and too many conflicting opinions of what is judged to be bad vs. what is judged to be good.

Everything is "science" (yes: readily admitted) - and it's fun to attempt to quantify the unquantifiable - but it doesn't lead to anything beyond rhetoric...and - if it's rhetoric we're needing - I believe I'm pretty good at delivering truckloads.

Let's make some charts and graphs about how brown and expensive sounds better - and plays better in tune with more projection - than shiny and cheap...(as - when REALLY getting real) most people perceive most things with their eyes, and perception is believed (at least in "our democracy" - by an overwhelming percentage of viewers) to be reality.

How's your music standin', today?

bloke "I know I suck, but I'm not cracking open any physics books to seek remedies. I know what needs to be done to move from suck up to mediocre."

[sweaty]

Anybody remember how many pro players used to be on the old forum? Yup, Bloke got rid of almost all of them.

Did the pro players appoint you as their spokesman? Really, that comment reminds me of the "Nyah, nyah, nobody likes you!" kind of talk I've heard 8-year-olds say when they're learning how to be catty.

I love a good discussion of ideas, especially when there is disagreement. People adding different information, references, principles, analogies,and personal experience increases the insight for everyone. Discussions are ruined when people resort to the "Oh yeah? Well, you're bad!" kind of talk. I describe that approach as intellectual cowardice because it runs away from the substance of the discussion. The old forum got swamped by it and is now an empty shell.

I implore you to not fall into that kind of talk. I highly value this forum and really don't want to see it dragged down like the old one. Pro players obviously left the old forum for the same reasons many others did. The old forum got ruined in many ways and it has been well-documented:
https://tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=94

[bloke]

Only two or three people here end up getting tangled up in threads where I point out the absurd by being absurd. Why is it always the same two or three people?
Social media has technology whereby - when I sense that certain people aren't clever enough to appreciate sarcasm, or are just plain kooky - I can just prevent them from seeing anything I ever post. The software what's builds these little sites isn't as sophisticated.

ex:
Yesterday on social media, I'll linked an article whereby it's been discovered that the "covid czar" in New York City - who was responsible for locking the city down and making sure no one was able to do much of anything (certainly not in regards to socializing, which negatively affected and/or destroyed countless people's livelihoods) - regularly engaged in wild sex parties during that entire time. I didn't comment about it much at all (allowing the article to speak for itself), a few others commented about it, and then - suddenly - someone started ranting about "yeah, but Donald Trump..." (huh...?!?!). I trolled that person for a little bit - as their non sequitur was so ridiculous, and then eventually - when they got ugly - I blocked them. I can't block people here.

...so what's an example of absurdity?
Well, I think this is probably a pretty damn good example:
https://youtu.be/FRTYvygTArs
(At least, I laughed.)

[Colby Fahrenbacher]

Anybody remember how many pro players used to be on the old forum? Yup, Bloke got rid of almost all of them.

I love a good discussion of ideas, especially when there is disagreement. People adding different information, references, principles, analogies,and personal experience increases the insight for everyone.

In principal, sure. The problem is Bloke, the single most active poster on this forum, is not only not interested in opinions that disagree with his own, he also responds by belligerent nonsensical trolling. His frequent uncivil behavior discourages anyone from posting anything that could result in a discussion of disagreeing ideas. He’s also made it clear that conclusions drawn from his personal life experiences whole-handedly trump any conclusion drawn from other peoples’ life experiences (as seen in this thread multiple times), and they are particularly more reliable than any form of data gathering.

So for most people on this forum, you’re absolutely right. For any thread that Bloke participates in though (which to be frank, is basically every single thread), I’m highly skeptical that good faith discourse can consistently happen.

To be clear, if Bloke could cut the juvenile trolling and unnecessary political commentary, I’d have no problem with him and you’d see a lot more of good discussion as you mentioned.

[MiBrassFS]

I can’t see my phone screen in bright sun.

How do people navigate the sun with an iPad?

[bloke]

Anybody remember how many pro players used to be on the old forum? Yup, Bloke got rid of almost all of them.

I love a good discussion of ideas, especially when there is disagreement. People adding different information, references, principles, analogies,and personal experience increases the insight for everyone.

In principal, sure. The problem is Bloke, the single most active poster on this forum, is not only not interested in opinions that disagree with his own, he also responds by belligerent nonsensical trolling. His frequent uncivil behavior discourages anyone from posting anything that could result in a discussion of disagreeing ideas. He’s also made it clear that conclusions drawn from his personal life experiences whole-handedly trump any conclusion drawn from other peoples’ life experiences (as seen in this thread multiple times), and they are particularly more reliable than any form of data gathering.

So for most people on this forum, you’re absolutely right. For any thread that Bloke participates in though (which to be frank, is basically every single thread), I’m highly skeptical that good faith discourse can consistently happen.

To be clear, if Bloke could cut the juvenile trolling and unnecessary political commentary, I’d have no problem with him and you’d see a lot more of good discussion as you mentioned.

yes...We need to be solemn 'n' academic 'n' stuff and our own nonsense isn't nonsense, whereas ONLY nonsense IN RESPONSE TO our own nonsense is nonsense. THIS ISN'T FUNNY, and SHUT UP and GET IN LINE !!!
...and - just in case you still don't get them message, THESE

thk.png (1.32 KiB) Viewed 301 times

are actually "I hate your guts, and shame on you for demonstrating absurdity by responding with absurdity" marks AGAINST you !!!

"bloke, your days are numbered. Get outah town !!!"

(Don't these peeps know how to find the stale old - political - place...??)

non sarcastic:
Review your posts, all we ever receive from you is prairie-doggin' POLITICAL/not-particularly-tuba-related-at-all (union crap...etc.) oh yeah, and promoting libel in regards to hearsay sh!t that you yourself (of course) didn't witness, and regarding someone who has not been criminally charged with anything (UNLESS google has let me down?) WHY NOT POST ABOUT PLAYING THE TUBA?

Witnessing the orwellian deterioration of academia (over the last 65 years - since I was first personally introduced to it in kindergarten), I feel so very fortunate that I'm not involved in some nightmarish industry (having sensed that things were just not right - decades ago - and having stepped out nearly immediately after I stepped in) - whereby someone can be immediately dismissed for accidentally referring to someone as "he" or "she"...or (completely within the realm of possibility) grasping a brass player by the shoulders from behind who is flailing around "musically" with their instrument, while all of these gyrations are causing them to miss pitches. (As a studio teacher - 45 years ago - I did this with a student...who immediately stopped missing so many pitches. ' unthinkable, today...and I'm quite sure that - today - "he" could easily slip out of my mouth, when addressing an obvious XY).

orwellian definition of "political":
stuff that others say that we ourselves dislike, so we believe they should be banned from saying it, even though we ourselves unapologetically say things which are equally offensive/ridiculous to them
I point out to "progressives" (who mock western religions - even though they accept gigs from churches/synagogues) that their Church of Progress is just as much as religion/cult/whatever as anything, with an ever-increasing list of sins, sacraments, and texts (along with it's own deacons/elders/priests/cardinals/bishops/popes/gods)...and their posting/rhetoric constantly refers back to their own religion/politics - as they accuse others of doing so via others' own belief systems.

[tokuno]

. . . I need to use my computer glasses to be clear, and then the conductor is a bit of a blur. . .

Isn't aging *fun*?

Fixable?

Due to early onset cataracts, I had a similar experience.
I reprinted music 11x17 (my portable was a full-size-with-standouts music stand with an led stand light for better contrast).
Fixed focus lenses replaced my progressives for music reading, with the "be able to see either/or" conductor/music choice.
Limited sight band mandated elevated music, so my Voyager was too short for standing gigs.
Couldn't sight read; the blurry notes didn't resolve quickly enough. Sheet music served just as a reminder after I'd taken the time to scrutinize my part.

I completed my lens-replacement focus 'lock in' this week, and I'm now sparkly-bright, razor-sharp, glasses-free from 20/15 distance to 13" reading.
Reading music real-time/real-speed - wow, it's a super-power! Don't take nuttin' for granted, folks.
interestingly, having scrutinized music note-by-note for the last few years, I'm needing to rebuild my lost sight-reading skills.

(I had a high school buddy, blind from 3-yrs old. Fake eyes - popping 'em out was an awesome party trick. In high school he parade- and field-marched clarinet and made state honor band. After qualifying, he disclosed his condition and they sent him his music ahead of time so he could memorize it. He set a high bar for powering through life's challenges)

[bloke]

. . . I need to use my computer glasses to be clear, and then the conductor is a bit of a blur. . .

Isn't aging *fun*?

Fixable?

Due to early onset cataracts, I had a similar experience.
I reprinted music 11x17 (my portable was a full-size-with-standouts music stand with an led stand light for better contrast).
Fixed focus lenses replaced my progressives for music reading, with the "be able to see either/or" conductor/music choice.
Limited sight band mandated elevated music, so my Voyager was too short for standing gigs.
Couldn't sight read; the blurry notes didn't resolve quickly enough. Sheet music served just as a reminder after I'd taken the time to scrutinize my part.

I completed my lens-replacement focus 'lock in' this week, and I'm now sparkly-bright, razor-sharp, glasses-free from 20/15 distance to 13" reading.
Reading music real-time/real-speed - wow, it's a super-power! Don't take nuttin' for granted, folks.
interestingly, having scrutinized music note-by-note for the last few years, I'm needing to rebuild my lost sight-reading skills.

(I had a high school buddy, blind from 3-yrs old. Fake eyes - popping 'em out was an awesome party trick. In high school he parade- and field-marched clarinet and made state honor band. After qualifying, he disclosed his condition and they sent him his music ahead of time so he could memorize it. He set a high bar for powering through life's challenges)

These days, we're not rolling in dough, YET chickens (lately) have been laying incredible quantities of eggs (still expensive in the stores, yes?)
Eggs are an amazing food - with so many good things that our bodies need, and probably only about 1/2 a carb gram per one egg...
...so I've been eating a bunch of them.
Use your search engine, and - if you believe what you read - eggs are VERY beneficial in regards to eyesight.
- My distance vision still sucks pretty bad. (OK...not the worst: I recently drove up into Wisconsin from blokeplace and back, and forgot my driving glasses...did fine, could read signs, could see OK at night.)
- My really close "reading" vision still sucks pretty bad (but again: not nearly as bad as some folks, and I feel very fortunate...I'm typing right now without wearing them.)

BUT...
- since eating quite a few eggs every day for quite a few months - I'm no longer finding that I have any use for my "intermediate" distance (focusing on music on a music stand) glasses.

yeah...
I have "moderate" cataracts. I'll do something about them when I need to, and - no - no one needs to respond encouraging me to go ahead and get this surgery done. I'm functioning just fine, I'm not afraid of the surgery, but would just as soon not be poked at until it's really time.

bloke "Go ahead and label me a kook for relating the improved 30-something inches focal length to eating eggs...but - then - use your search engine to read about 'egg-eating and vision'...and - again - I've been eating a bunch of 'em."

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[tokuno]

bloke "Go ahead and label me a kook for relating the improved 30-something inches focal length to eating eggs...but - then - use your search engine to read about 'egg-eating and vision'...and - again - I've been eating a bunch of 'em."

Drove through the Little Big Horn/Greasy Grass site last month on our way to deliver our youngest to Purdue. Didn't know Custer played tuba, but maybe he needed a higher, sturdier stand. Something better suited to handling attacca bellicoso con velocita.

I didn't know about the egg-eye connection, but I was toying with getting a coop (home-grown for choline-rich eggs with lower levels of linoleic acid). But hawks, raccoons, coyotes, foxes, and a travel-aggressive wife . . . just need to find a trustworthy local source.

[bloke]

We can't free-range...We have varmints, too.

We do hatch out our own replacements, though.

[Colby Fahrenbacher]

I can’t see my phone screen in bright sun.

How do people navigate the sun with an iPad?

That’s definitely one of the trade-offs/struggles of standard backlit tablets. It’s the worst in direct sunlight (similar to the overheating issue mentioned), though is a bit more reasonable in shaded environments. Having just finished an Oktoberfest gig on a shaded stage but an otherwise cloudless day, it was totally manageable for me (but obviously your mileage will vary based on your personal situation). I’ve heard of e-Reader style tablets being better in this situation, though I don’t have direct experience with them (MuPad I think is one example?).

I would never argue (and I hope others also wouldn’t) that tablets are a perfect solution in every circumstance. It’s a matter of trade offs and personal values. We are so used to the downsides of paper music that it’s easy to forget they exist when comparing them to digital music. My hope would be that people keep an open mind to it as an alternative.

[bloke]

I'd consider a tablet if they were 11x14, I could read off of them as easily as I can (OLD SCHOOL - NOT xerox of Finale) "engraved" (actually printed...you know: the old yellowish stuff that we get when we play Brahms, Sibelius, Bruckner, and all that stuff) music, and if they cost under $200...but ALL of those characteristics, and not merely one of those characteristics...

...and I resent - just a bit - librarians attempting to coerce using them...Just SUPPLY them (just as the printed music is supplied) and I might consider learning how to mess with one.

If eMusic, then - heck - why not an eTuba?
I'm probably too old to play worth a crap anymore anyway.