stands

[Colby Fahrenbacher]

The only defense for printing on 8.5”x11” copier paper is necessity (aka the orchestra can’t afford the good stuff or afford to hire people who know to use the good stuff). Professional engraving is definitely an under-rated art form that is easy to dismiss with the ease of use that comes with digital music. That said, professional engraving and high quality printing is absolutely possible with the right materials, equipment, and expertise, and can definitely be replicated with digital music.

One of the interesting by-products of using digital music is that we can call into question exactly how we format music, something most people simply take for granted. We are trained to play with two pages up at a time, but do we always need this to be to the case? Many music apps allow for partial page turns (aka I’m done with the first half of this page, so show me the first half of the next page in its’ place while I finish the page that I am on). You can replicate this by taping in a half-page foldout, but it is so much easier to do in an app. We also have new options for how to turn pages, including taping a screen, using a Bluetooth foot pedal, or adding a Bluetooth button on your instrument. I vaguely recall hearing about companies working on a file format more dynamic than PDF that would allow the user to control display in a way that doesn’t just zoom in, but moves necessary bars to the next line when needed. I could see this taking some getting used to, but I could also see it off-setting the need for larger screens (albeit more page turns…).

I’ve thought about the “should the orchestra supply a tablet or should the member use their own” a lot. There are so many trade-offs either way I have a hard time endorsing either approach. I think the cost is difficult to justify for either party (in a “a tablet will earn me this much money and pay for itself in X years kind of way). On the other hand, an orchestra librarian only needs to bow a single, digital part to prepare for a concert in a fully digital orchestra, and that would save a TON of time (aka money). There’s a lot of completely justified apprehension to using tablets, and one of the drawbacks of an orchestra providing them is that the user has very little time to become comfortable with the device and software (assuming rehearsals are the first time the musicians accesses the tablet). Using musician owned tablets means they can take as much time as they want getting comfortable with it. If that’s not the assumption, then is the orchestra checking out tablets to musicians? Do orchestras regularly ship tablets to subs who live out of town? There’s already a lot of cost risk to shipping original parts, let alone a tablet. The benefit of using PDFs on musician owned tablets is that the orchestra doesn’t need to know what hardware you have or what app you use. If you feel comfortable using it, you can use it. At the same time, there’s a risk of parts being out of sync (someone using an old PDF or using “their” part from a different edition).

The bottom line for me is there is no established best practice for how to navigate this transition, and it is incredibly complicated with a whole lot of trade-offs either way. It’s a financial investment either way with most of the gains in quality of life improvements (or changes, depending on your priorities). For what it’s worth, some orchestras are supplying tablets, it’s just not pervasive through the industry at this point.

[bloke]

I know I'm being redundant, but - dammit - I'm already supplying the crazy expensive instrument, and traditionally they've always supplied the sheet music.

Military bands often supply instruments, yes? What's the customary thing with European symphony orchestras?

(I'm not trying to get away from the tablet vs. sheet current topic.)

[Colby Fahrenbacher]

I know I'm being redundant, but - dammit - I'm already supplying the crazy expensive instrument, and traditionally they've always supplied the sheet music.

Military bands often supply instruments, yes? What's the customary thing with European symphony orchestras?

(I'm not trying to get away from the tablet vs. sheet current topic.)

It's definitely treading new terrain, to be sure. To be fair to orchestras, they would still be supplying the music, via purchasing or renting the digital music (even in the digital era, they typically are not asking you to procure your own music, digital or physical) and they would be handling the performance rights, it's just a matter of the tablet device.

Anecdotally, I do know some military bands are supplying tablets (I don't know to what extent though). From what I've heard, at least some European orchestras have been experimenting with supplying tablets, but I don't know the details.

Transitions are always funky and full of uncertainty. I would hope that once the more established orchestras with more resources fine tune the digital music on tablets processes, some best practices would trickle down to those orchestras with less resources to experiment.

[bloke]

One of the freeway philharmonics for which I work has had the same big band come through with their basically "Nelson Riddle orchestration" (big band with a single string bass, strings, and single orchestral woodwinds... They have supplied three of the saxes, two of the trumpets, and one of the trombones both times, as well as supplying their own rhythm section: piano, drums; and bass) arrangements two different times - spaced approximately three years apart. The second time, they had tablets for everyone including all the string players. This was the big band, and not my own freeway philharmonic - the orchestra which is trying to get me to use a tablet at my own expense for classical concerts and other pops concerts.

Interestingly, the orchestra is really fat with money, gave us a little raise (which catches up for about 20% of the inflation that we've experienced over the past three years) and has started a little music academy thingy. I'm pretty sure they could spring for 50 or 60 tablets... They spend a ton more than the cost of that many Android large screen tablets on renting a deluxe outdoor stage once a year, and that concert is free. I feel pretty confident that they spend more money than that on hiring the sound and light show guys for each of the pops concerts.

I understand your point about the digital music that they have to buy, but - for us to read and play it - it has to be converted to some physical form, and I don't think that we should be paying to do the conversion...

Everything seems to involve getting by on the cheap - in regards to hiring "the help", including categorizing us as independent contractors rather than employees, even though they are requiring us to be at certain places at a certain times (which is the definition of a regular employee). I wonder if they would allow me to work from home, if I negotiated with them to work for the old pay scale?

(I've always known that most employers - public/private/for-profit/non-profit - and certainly those who employ a significant number of people - view employees in this way, and that's why I've never had a so-called "job". We're I to walk away from my freeway philharmonic gigettes, I would probably make more money than I do... but even when the programmed music is crappy, I enjoy the hang with my buddies.)

[Colby Fahrenbacher]

I'm pretty sure they could spring for 50 or 60 tablets... They spend a ton more than the cost of that many Android large screen tablets on renting a deluxe outdoor stage once a year, and that concert is free. I feel pretty confident that they spend more money than that on hiring the sound and light show guys for each of the pops concerts.

"Free" probably means a donor has provided the all the funding for that concert/series. It's easy to convince a donor that a deluxe outdoor stage or professional a/v is necessary for a performance, but I'm not sure it is as easy to convince them that tablets are necessary. Not impossible, for sure, but I think a steeper hill to climb. As I said before, the return on investment isn't easy to quantify, so you would need a fundraiser with a clear implementation plan to sell the idea to a donor who loves the idea of modernizing the symphony. That said, this is probably the only realistic way a symphony switches to tablets en masse.

I understand your point about the digital music that they have to buy, but - for us to read and play it - it has to be converted to some physical form, and I don't think that we should be paying to do the conversion...

100% agree with you. Professional orchestras should always provide professional parts for their musicians to perform from and should never expect their musicians to print their parts at home to perform from (I think practice parts are an exception to this, with the expectation that high quality originals will be on the stand at the first rehearsal). I think that once an orchestra decides to go full tablet, they should STILL provide professional originals to anyone who requests it (and they should probably still have a full set of originals available for safety).

Though, as I read this comment for a second time, I'm re-interpreting "paying to do the conversion" to also include individually purchasing a tablet, not just printing parts at home, which is fair. In full disclosure, I don't use my iPad solely for reading sheet music. I use it to watch YouTube/Netflix while I practice (most definitely not detrimental to my practice efficiency...) and use it for a number of tasks at work. Because of that, I perceive the costs/benefit of the iPad differently than someone who would be solely purchasing it for an upcoming gig. Per my previous paragraph, I think it is also unreasonable for an orchestra say "we are going tablet only, you have to go out and buy one or you can't play the gig" (particularly if you are a rostered regular member). In that scenario, I think the orchestra should either provide you a tablet or originals.

[bloke]

That annual concert is free of admission, and it's absolutely NOT an inexpensive concert (with - of course - the only financial economizing being- again - with "the help", as we throw it together in only two rehearsals - a read-through, and a sound check). I understand everything about all that stuff. They must think it's worth it throw all the money they do at that show, because they've done it for decades, and I think it really encourages a lot of the people in the medium size city to at least attend the pops concerts, which are the ones that - as you surely know - pay the bills.
-----------
I wouldn't expect the orchestra to give me a tablet to own. The big band (that has done those shows with us) didn't mail them ahead for us to have at our homes, and they certainly didn't leave them behind as gifts. We had them at the rehearsals and at the concert. I'm making an obvious point that you already understand, but it's the same sort of point that I would make in front of the board of directors, were they to even let me speak to them. I'm not interested in them buying me a tablet as a gift, and I would much prefer to never have to be responsible for it. It's just that - since they are wanting us to use tablets at the rehearsals and concerts - they should be furnishing them in the same way that they furnish the chairs, stands, and paper music, even though they post PDFs of all the music on the musicians' password protected portion of their website.

I don't see any disagreement between you and me on anything regarding this particular topic. I actually DO suspect that the board could be talked into financing a set of tablets, and that all that would have to be done would be for it to be presented in the right way and for the executive director to be in favor of it, as they tend to rubber stamp the executive director's initiatives, whether those initiatives involve very small amounts of money or huge amounts of money.

[bloke]

addendum:

Thinking about this more...

I believe an orchestra - moved over to orchestra-supplied tablets - should be able sign them out for a couple of months, and become familiar with the features.
I have never messed with a touch screen larger than my phone, but I do know that tablets offer a handy "half-page" feature, which (once having played everything above the middle) the first half of the next page can be made to appear in the top half of the screen - eliminating any page turn issues and (probably) discounting the need/desire for one of those "foot switch" add-on gadgets.

me...??
I would like those two months to practice referring back to the tunes index (necessary for pops concerts), doing page turns, doing half-page turns, (simply) turning it off and on, recharging, and any of the very simple/rudimentary skills required to use the technology as a substitute for sheet music.

...and yeah: They would need to be BIG ones...not 10-inch diag. cheapos. Even the 14-inch ones (yes?) are actually only 11 or 12 inches tall, as that measurement (yes?) refers to the DIAGONAL.

[Colby Fahrenbacher]

I’d bet that what you’ve described is largely what the process would look like. Allow musicians to check out a device in advance, create a unique log-in for each musician, and store/update PDFs in a cloud-based app (so the program can be updated remotely).

I’ve used the half page feature too, but I don’t use it all the time. Maybe I haven’t spent enough time with it, or this is a limitation of ForScore, but it seemed like you either had it enabled for all page turns or none. Meaning if there was one page that required a half page turn, every piece on the program required a double tap to accommodate the one. Not a big deal, more a slight nuisance.

You’re right about the measurements, screen sizes are listed by diagonal measurement, though you can find the standard dimensions also. The Samsung S9 Ultra and iPad Pro are the largest I’ve been able to find at a ~14 diagonal, putting them at about 8.5x11. I’m not optimistic that the market will trend towards larger but cheaper profiles (to meet your 11x14 and <$200 preference).

The best bet for that to happen (but still unlikely I think) would be for a highly specialized music tablet (like PadMu, which I mistakenly called MuPad previously). It uses eInk like a book eReader instead of a backlit LED display, so it is easier in the eyes, uses less energy, and works better in sunlight. It’s also designed specifically for use with sheet music and can be paired with a second PadMu to display two pages side-by-side. A neat feature, but with a price tag of about $1000…woof no thanks, I don’t need two.

Ideally, the hardware should be cheaper than a full blown tablet so the price could come down, but I don’t think the music industry is large enough to drive prices down significantly. Maybe a stripped down educational version could hit that price point? I don’t know, I’m skeptical.

Oh, I don’t know if you’ve thought about this, but you can remove page margins on a tablet, changing the effective size of the PDF. 9”x12” is generally the orchestra standard minimum for printing parts, but if you remove a 1/2” margin, the actual space used on the page is 8”/11”, so the tablet screens could be a bit closer in size than they would originally appear. Obviously if you write a lot of notes in the margins, that won’t work.

I prefer to write my fingerings above the notes though Bb is open…Bb is open…

[Colby Fahrenbacher]

This thread has been all over the place

Anyhow…

Harry Connick Jr. was using something like tablets 20 years ago (iirc) so that he could make last minute changes to scores and push them to the band easily without issue.

A big version of something like the Kindle PaperWhite would handle just about all of the issues. It’s static content (there is no refresh rate for these screens) and it’s high contrast by design. Problem likely is that the market isn’t all that large.

ETA: Colby posted the above one minute before me… that’s cool. I’ll leave my blurb here as a ‘vote’.

[Colby Fahrenbacher]

To help with the music size, I have seen our piano player use their tablet in landscape mode. The whole page won’t display in this orientation, but it is much easier to read. Much more scrolling for sure though, so I’d imagine very situationally dependent.

I was thinking about the idea of orchestra supplying a tablet a bit more, and there’s another extension of it that I don’t think entirely unreasonable: providing internet hotspots. If a tablet is going to rely on a cloud-based service to provide music at home, the musician would need WiFi internet access. While most people do, not everyone does (I’ve heard stories of musicians still not having email addresses), and it would not be very expensive for an orchestra to have a few hotspots available on hand for the few members who might request them.

[bloke]

It seems to me that musicians can read PDFs on a musician's website on their own laptops at home, and - of course - they can optionally print them out if they don't want to read them off their home laptops or desktop computer screens.

Getting real, more and more concerts are pops with every orchestra - which means that more and more tuba parts are even easier than most symphonic/"classical "tuba parts, and we tend to have a stack of charts that don't even require playing through once prior to reading rehearsals, but still there are going to be some licks for us to sort out. Quite often, it is the counting and coming in at the right places that is the most challenging for us, which is why YouTube is just about as helpful for our preparation as the sheet music being sent ahead via PDF.

Once once an orchestra decides to furnish rehearsal and performance music on tablets - and after the month or two of allowing musicians to take them home to get accustomed to using them is over, I see the librarians' responsibility as loading all the music for a particular concert in order on each tablet, of course along with an index. I also think they should delete previous concerts' music, to avoid any screw ups.

[gocsick]

I know absolutely nothing about the trials and tribulations of orchestral players and librarians when it comes to managing music.

I recently switched to a tablet and foot pedal setup and it has been fantastic for my playing. The street band I'm in has over 200 charts in the active library.. and just looking at the set lists for the last few months we have played about 50 in current rotation. We also do a bunch of 1 Offs - like flight sings for opposing teams played while busking at football tailgates. Then there are all the last minute changes "we didn't have enough trombones to play X today let's sub out Y" or the person who hired us really liked when we played something two years ago and wondered if we can add it to the set for today. I used to carry a huge binder with all the charts then a second setlist folder with all the music I think we are going to play. There was a ton of time in reorganizing folders and binders for each gig and rehearsal. Having everything at hand, at all times, on a tablet is just so much more convenient. ForScore is not a free app but it was completely worth the $20 it cost so I can organized charts into setlists and page through everything in a 3 hour gig over half page at a time. Also all of our charts have .mp3 recordings. When something gets called that I've never played before, or when new charts are added to the library, I can give it a listen while following along with my part so I am not completely clueless.

I also like to go to trad jazz and other jams. Carrying two or three Real books is a pain and having that on a tablet is really nice. Also I make good use of iReal Pro.. I have literally thousands of free leadsheets that I've downloaded on the tablet. The beauty is the app will transpose all the changes for me when the vocalists requests that we play Darktown Strutters Ball in D instead of C because of her range. Printed real books can't do that.

I prefer reading from printed music on paper. For the low brass ensemble I play in, we have a set program for an upcoming concert. I have known for the last three months what we are playing and in what order. For that I still use paper.

[bloke]

Established jazz bands and other sorts of bands like that have books. They tend to keep their entire library in their overstuffed folders. I'm not using the adjective "overstuffed" as an insult or criticism, but merely as a reality.

Symphony orchestras keep all of their music in their libraries - typically in the symphony orchestras' offices. Otherwise, they rent or buy scheduled pieces that aren't in their libraries. The only music in the folders at any one time is the music for the next upcoming concert. If there are two or three next upcoming and different concerts close together, there are typically two or three folders.

I know that these days it's exception, but the 1920s through 1930s Style jazz bands that I've worked with didn't use sheet music and didn't bring music stands, but there were overstuffed folders of lead sheets for subs. One of the bands also owned the rare and revered Lu Watters set of part books, which had written out parts for each of the musicians. These allow people who aren't familiar with any of that literature to actually play the literature - via regular note reading off the staff. Someone needs to publish those books, so that the music can live again. Those books help people - who like that style, but have no clue as to how to play it - to get started and to sound good right off the bat.