What do other instruments do to "Franken" their horns?

[KingTuba1241X]

Pretty cool, looks factory. Those are such cool basses.

[iiipopes]

My fanned-fret custom P-style bass. I designed it and was the general contractor for the various parts from different manufacturers and customizers; I did the final assembly. Link to TalkBass description:
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/a-diff ... ss.755914/

BlueBass.JPG (36.75 KiB) Viewed 1710 times

And here is what it sounds like. I played everything but the obvious keyboard solos and orchestra dubs:

[martyneilan]

Trombone valves were briefly touched on, but I remember back in the 80's in the NYC area when most of the "serious" trombone students had Thayer valves installed on their Bach's, proudly displaying their lacquer scars. And who could forget Don Harwood's bass sporting a low C second trigger.

[ProAm]

I enjoyed reading about the fanned-fret custom bass project. While I have toyed with an electric bass a bit, this glimpse into that world at a top professional level and understanding was something so out of my range of knowledge that I was fascinated by it. I had no idea that I was so ignorant on the subject of bass or guitar design.

[GC]

I've never bought a bass without being satisfied with what it had on it to begin with and didn't want to do any alterations other than experimenting with strings, with one exception: my last bass had string saddles that wouldn't stay in place, and had I not retired from playing I was going to put a Hipshot bridge on it.

Guitarists Frankenstein their amps all the time, but they just call it "modding".

[Three Valves]

On my electric bass, flat wounds.

Mexican Fender Jazz.
Knock off Hoffner Beatles Bass.

I need to break those out again after the holidays. Now is tuba season!!

[LeMark]

I've never bought a bass without being satisfied with what it had on it to begin with and didn't want to do any alterations other than experimenting with strings, with one exception: my last bass had string saddles that wouldn't stay in place, and had I not retired from playing I was going to put a Hipshot bridge on it.

Guitarists Frankenstein their amps all the time, but they just call it "modding".

The worst thing about less expensive basses is their electronics, and if you like the EMG tone, EMG active pickups in even a cheap bass make it sound like a much more expensive bass. Two of my basses have EMG active pickups. I also made my own fretless bass out of a regular bass, made major modifications to a short scale bass, and of course the project to add a string to my peavey. All of those modifications are things are not available to purchase that way from the factory.

[Rick Denney]

Only one bass here close to stock, and that's the acoustic bass.

Stupid sidebar: How stupid is the notion of an acoustic bass?

(I mean—something that would look okay jamming with bluegrass players, not something would actually make money for its owner, like a guitarrón.)

Rick “a question from a decade ago and not really needing an answer” Denney

[Rick Denney]

On my electric bass, flat wounds.

Mexican Fender Jazz.
Knock off Hoffner Beatles Bass.

I need to break those out again after the holidays. Now is tuba season!!

Mine, too.

Mine is a Fender P-Bass Plus, which has a set of Jazz pickups in addition to the Precision pickups. USA-made, and I guess it’s pretty decent. Dark metallic blue. Pristine, because I don’t ever play it. No mods, of course. I’ve used the Peavey bass amp for other purposes at times, though.

Beats me why I even own it. A unique buying opportunity, I suspect.

Rick “no skills, no time, and no real interest” Denney

[LeMark]

Only one bass here close to stock, and that's the acoustic bass.

Stupid sidebar: How stupid is the notion of an acoustic bass?

(I mean—something that would look okay jamming with bluegrass players, not something would actually make money for its owner, like a guitarrón.)

Rick “a question from a decade ago and not really needing an answer” Denney

I bought it so I could play in my den without having to lug an amp in there. It sounds cool, was cheap enough, and why not? Basses are so cheap compared to tubas, it's hard not to buy them on a whim

[sdloveless]

I've purchased a lot of electric basses over the years and have either modded them, or sold them, because they weren't quite right for some reason. Earlier this year I got myself a brand new USA G&L LB-100 and put Chrome flats on it. I don't think I've ever been happier with a bass. If I do any modifications at all, it will likely be cramming a piece of foam under the strings, or maybe some fancy control knobs. And that's about it.

[grayax]

Only one bass here close to stock, and that's the acoustic bass.

Did you add a 5th string to the Peavey T-40? Ross Vallory would be proud (not like those basses weren't already 20 lbs to begin with).

I played one of those in high school (it was the school's).

I rebuilt a 5 string of mine. The neck and tuners are still original. I made a new body out of ash, EMG pickups (SJ5, 40P5, LJ5) and a Hipshot trem. The strap pegs and back plate for the neck are also original.

[KingTuba1241X]

On my electric bass, flat wounds.

Mexican Fender Jazz.
Knock off Hoffner Beatles Bass.

I need to break those out again after the holidays. Now is tuba season!!

Mine, too.

Mine is a Fender P-Bass Plus, which has a set of Jazz pickups in addition to the Precision pickups. USA-made, and I guess it’s pretty decent. Dark metallic blue. Pristine, because I don’t ever play it. No mods, of course. I’ve used the Peavey bass amp for other purposes at times, though.

Beats me why I even own it. A unique buying opportunity, I suspect.

Rick “no skills, no time, and no real interest” Denney

Nice, that's called a P/J kind of the best of both worlds yet not at the same time. Depends on who you ask.

[Doc]

Stupid sidebar: How stupid is the notion of an acoustic bass?
(I mean—something that would look okay jamming with bluegrass players, not something would actually make money for its owner, like a guitarrón.)

Rick “a question from a decade ago and not really needing an answer” Denney

I don't have opportunity for bluegrass, but classic country and western swing are my bread and butter.

I bought it so I could play in my den without having to lug an amp in there. It sounds cool, was cheap enough, and why not? Basses are so cheap compared to tubas, it's hard not to buy them on a whim

It's a lot easier to schlepp around than an upright bass. But when getting paid, it's easier to justify packing around the upright. And for what I do, there's nothing quite like it.

Doc (who schlepps an upright around regularly)

[iiipopes]

I have taken an acoustic bass to jams and rehearsals on the condo penthouse balcony and on the beach when my band goes to Mexico every year. The bass did quite well, indeed.

[rodgeman]

Apparently Eddie Van Halen heavily modified his guitars. So much so that Popular Mechanics wrote about it.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/techno ... -a-guitar/

[ProAm]

Here is something that was popular among trumpet players a few years ago. I don't know if any other brass instruments have experimented with adding weight in certain spots. I also don't know if Mr Ridenour still sells these. Here is the description of "TweeQers" in his words gleaned from some posts on the Trumpet Herald forum:

I have developed a “clip” that snaps over the tube between the first two valve casings and the second two. There is also a clip that snaps over the elbows from the bottom tube of the first slide and from the leadpipe into the third valve casing. I am calling these clips “TweeQers”. Everyone who has tried them have been surprised at the difference they make to the sound and the "feel" of the instrument.

Several years ago I began to wonder about some patches that I have on my CSO Mt Vernon and those that are on Bud Herseth's orchestra horn. Basically, the tubes between the valve casings, the tube between the valve casing and bell ferrule, the ends of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd slides and a couple places on the bell all had silver patches on. I wondered whether they had a purely cosmetic function or whether there was also an acoustic function as well. For matters of testing, I didn't want to have patches similar to what was there made and soldered on because it would be difficult to immediately tell if there was any difference. Wayne Tananbe and I came up with the idea of making a custom-fitted patch that would clip over the tubes so that I could test and experiment to see what the acoustical properties were. My initial impressions were correct.

In my collaboration with John Hagstrom and Bob Malone on the Yamaha trumpets, we found that the weight distribution on the different elements of the horn can make a big difference (valve stems, braces, finger buttons, top caps, bottom caps, bell, etc). What I learned is that not all weight on the trumpet is bad, nor is it all beneficial. If you want a sound devoid of overtone brilliance, you should use a horn that is heavy everywhere. Weight in the right place is beneficial. The TweeQers adds weight to a place that benefits both the horn and the player.
Adding weight to that specific area of the horn definitely helped notes to slot better, helped the notes that were "squirrelly" to lock in better, in some cases they were able to create a different balance between core sound and overtone brilliance.

I use the TweeQers all the time on any horn they fit onto. They do make a positive difference on C , Bb, Eb, D, Cornet. I used two elbow clips on the ends of the 2nd and 3rd slide on my NY Bb a couple of weeks ago on Prokofiev 6. It helped to open up the low register on that horn.

Before TweeQers, I would use the same lead tape that golfers and tennis players use on the ports and elbows.

I have demonstrated the TweeQers and had many players try them. This is not "voodoo". You can hear an audible difference when they are on. You can feel a difference when they are on.

Mark Ridenour
Assistant Principal Trumpet
Chicago Symphony Orchestra

[bloke]

That makes me chuckle just a little bit, because - before Mark left Memphis… I think to Florida - He was one of the few trumpet players I knew whose instruments were bone stock.

[ProAm]

Interesting! Perhaps when you get in the Chicago band you enter a land of mystery and mystique.

I have read that Phil Smith, former principal of NY Phil, used an off-the-shelf Bach C.

The CSO Bach Mt Vernon C trumpets are some of the most talked about and studied trumpets that I know of. They were "off the shelf" in their day...

[tbonesullivan]

The trombone world has been full of "tone tumors", "resistance balancers", and other Braces and such you could put pretty much anywhere. Rath trombones has trombones with minimal bracing and counterweights for their custom lines, but you can get any number of weights to attach to them.

Ralph Sauer marketed a brace that you would stick in between the outer slide tubes, trying to mimic the weight distribution of a tuning in slide trombone. They aren't made anymore, but you do see a lot of people with trombones messing with the weight distribution on the slide. Some will have the nickel oversleeves removed from their slide to make it lighter. Some will have braces removed or added in the bell section to make it respond differently.

Edwards trombones came up with their "Harmonic Brace" system when they developed their Joe Alessi T-396, which was a special brace between the F-Attachment bracing and the Bell bracing. The idea was a non-modular horn, which could be then tweaked using various different "harmonic pillars", which thread into the harmonic brace, which has three spots. They varied in size and composition, and basically were designed to allow the instrument to be fine tuned without having to swap around bells, tunings slides, slides, leadpipes, etc.

When Conn first rolled out their CL2000 Christian Lindberg valve, it came with a standard weight and a heavy weight valve cap. Hagmann valves are also available with heavy valve caps, and some trombones list it as a feature.

Many in the trombone world also point to the traditional German trombones, made with relatively thin high copper content brass, which then have snakes on the end of the tuning slide and main slide, as well as bell garlands. These all serve to help affect the resonance of the horn.

And lets not forget Euphonium players and their desire for heavy bottom valve caps, especially for automatically compensating horns, where the 4th valve is the usual target.

Though, getting back to trombones, one of the most common you see is "I want to put X slide with Y bell". This normally isn't possible due to differences in the tenon size / taper / etc, but some brands are compatible. I think BAC also made a slide that had a tenon you could swap out, so you could make it fit virtually any bell section.