POLL: shorty/fatty (York-like) Holton B-flat tuba with 19-inch bell...

[bloke]

Today,

I may yank this thing apart, and straighten out its bows and bell...

...so no morning make-my-muscles-and-joints-feel-better super-hot bath. (Likely, a good bit of buffing will be done, and it just seems a bit dumb to cover up "clean" skin with a coat of buffing dirt).

If things go well, I might install the large bows' caps.

[Rick Denney]

...but I’m serious dead serious about mostly using it as a long semitone, and likely very seldom using it as a long whole tone. Spot-on B-naturals and low E's are more useful than growling low E-flats.

Agreed.

But maybe it would help the Eb, too. 1-4 is sharp, and the usual 4-valve workaround of 1-2-4 is flat. But with a long semitone 5th, might 2-4-5 work with a small (optional?) pull?

You probably already said that upthread and I missed it.

Rick “who uses the false tone and can’t make it growl anyway” Denney

[bloke]

yeah...mentioned, but you - of course - realized it as well.
Design/engineering can be impressively logical, but we only discover whether-or-not it correctly predicted "actual", when it's put into practice.

As far as a double-low B-natural is concerned (which would be all valves activated with a 5th being a long whole-tone), I cannot recall being asked to play one of those - at least not in a gig which involved reading music off pieces of paper...and I've only asked MYSELF to play them EXTREMELY RARELY, in gigs NOT involving reading music off pieces of paper...and - mostly - just to see if I could make anyone smile.

================================

The top-action valveset and patched mouthpipe have been set aside, the bell is off, and I've begun roughly out bell dents...but took a lunch break.
I guess I'll now find out if the thing is work-hardened...or (hopefully) not.

================================

York boy, I've actually been messing with your stuff as well.
...your bottom bow issue...I'll probably bridge it with a piece of bent-to-lay-in brass wire and some careful brazing...UNLESS you would prefer that I just rely on the to-be-installed cap (to close the leak)...??

[York-aholic]

Is it done yet?

[bloke]

The bell looked like it had been attacked by a very agitated wolverine, and that some "repair technician" burnished it out with framing nails...

I spent quite a few hours on JUST the bell.

Nothing was work-hardened...so annealing would have accomplished nothing...but there simply was too much surface area - in one sector (ie. "pie-slice" of the bell flair), and I had to put that surface area where I could manage to put it that looks the most like a circle, and whereby the curvature of the cone comes the closest to matching the rest of the "sectors" of the bell flair.

It's not the most perfectly symmetrical (ie. same shape as when originally lathe-spun) bell that I've ever repaired, but I'm convinced that I've done the very best that could possibly be done with it.

Since B-flat tubas are "lacquer finish" and "student" instruments , I'll probably end up eventually lacquering this one...but it's going to sport a bunch of scratches and gouges.

bloke "It will be PLENTY shiny to reflect flood-/spot-lights, and to point the reflections at chosen patrons in the hall during moments of boredom."

[York-aholic]

Looks better than any bell I own...

Wait, framing nails are not an approved brass instrument repair tool?

Fine, I’ll go dump them in the trash can.

[Tubajug]

Wait, framing nails are not an approved brass instrument repair tool?

Fine, I’ll go dump them in the trash can.

You need roofing nails since the bell is at the top. :)

[bloke]

I did quite a few things today, and also ran quite a few errands.

At the end of the day, I decided to squeeze in straightening out this formerly-smashed bottom bow.

When I do bottom bows, I not only remove dents and smooth out the surface, but additional objectives are to end up with the two ends coplanar (if they are supposed to be, and - if they're not supposed to be coplanar - then, in parallel planes), and (not just the ends round, but) the entire tube round (ie. not oval...and - if you put your hands into cloth gloves, and run your hands around the bow - the bow STILL feels round - everywhere).

I accomplished all of those things with this one, but ran out of time (and "gas") before installing this cap, which was generously donated by a friend...
...so maybe (??) I'll install the cap tomorrow.
When RE-installing the large side bell-connector ring, the sloppy Holton workers from the 1960's were winking at me and ribbing me...
Per classic Holton, the ring was too large for the bow, so I did some subtle expanding of the circumference of the large end of the bow, rather than using up a bunch of solder.

[York-aholic]

Making good progress

[bloke]

The bottom bow cap is on.
This is a King (model 2341) cap on a Holton(model 560) bow.
The King cap was generously donated by a friend.
The King bow cap was quite smushed in, but - without the donation - I would have had nothing to repair and use...so I'm quite grateful.
(I hate it when "overhaul shops" toss bottom bow caps in the trash, because either they don't know how to repair and reinstall them...or they're too lazy.)

Once straightened, the King cap and Holton bow weren't quite compatible (and they certainly aren't identically-curved), so I had to finesse the cap on to the bow...but (well...) I've done a bit of this before, and this was one of the easier cap-to-bow "finesse" jobs.

I'm going to be doing something very similar (for the same friend who donated the King cap), so it's good that I got in some practice prior to doing theirs.

GUARD WIRE: Again, I really don't want any of that thick/tall King sousaphone guard wire digging into my thigh muscles, so I'm shopping through my salvage (including that piece of chrome-plated Olds contra guard wire, shown earlier). I'll install a guard wire when I've decided what I'm going to install.
If someone has a nice (not distressed) piece of NOT-AS-LARGE-AS-KING-SOUSAPHONE guard wire (but slightly larger profile than Olds) to sell to me, let me know.


weird light reflection on the inside of the edge...' not a "smear"

[Tubajug]

Fantastic!

[bloke]

I used higher temperature solder - to solder the cap on - than I’ve ever used before. It was a little bit more work cleaning up around the edges (pre-buffing), but I did not have to be as careful in the polishing stage, as far as having to prevent the solder from becoming molten (from the buffing heat) and unsoldering along the edges. I believe I’m going to use that type of solder for this application again, in the future.

[bloke]

no-lead

[hrender]

That's really nice work.

[bloke]

It’s always nice when something doesn’t present a bunch of difficulty, yet turns out nice.
I guess we get better and faster at what we do...then slower and worse...and then, we die.

[groovlow]

Dang looks really good !
I like the trick of glove and feel test
for round through a curved cone
Nice job on the pics too!
Joe H

[bloke]

I guess I got most of the crap rounded up that is needed for this project.
Again...I really can't be spending a whole bunch of time on this...

[bloke]

update:
The upper bow cap (NOT Holton) is proving to be even more of a challenge to install than was the lower bow cap...but I will succeed.

vanity:
I'm going to have a professional engraver trace over and deepen the original (simple - no florals involved) bell engraving.

It's a SMALLER version of the typical 1960's (as seen on the earlier 1960's model 345 tubas)...

Frank Holton & Co.
......ELKHORN, WIS.
...........U S A

bloke "...shipping costs... ...though I might (??) be able to avoid $1000 worth of repeated answers to the question,

What make is it?"

====================================
post-script...to the "prepared tuba" composerist:
IF YOU HURRY, you can write me a piece for THIS...https://i.imgur.com/B7jpIL5.jpg

[bloke]

OK...
The MOST time-consuming bow (the upper bow - particularly when one is all beat up and has a small crack in it as well) is now done.

The inner bows are going to be easy, and (also) are not badly-dented.

The same person who generously donated the bottom bow cap also generously donated this upper bow cap...
...and this cap had EVEN LESS to do with the contour and taper of this Holton top bow than did the donated bottom bow cap, but - as promised - it's on, and is a very convincing-looking fit (now).

I believe I've decided to use Olds/Reynolds (small gauge) guard wire for both the upper and lower outside bows.
The original Holton guard wire (upper bow) is slightly smaller than King. Years ago (many, likely) when this instrument was obviously subjected to an "overhaul shop", the oem bottom bow cap (along with the oem guard wire) was/were discarded and King sousaphone guard wire was put on in it's place.
again...I don't want something - that defines that much of a "hump" digging into my thigh muscles, when playing...thus the decision to use Olds/Reynolds guard wire...plus (in addition to it being low-profile), it's obtainable.
oh yeah...Formerly, the upper bow never had a cap installed on it...per typical with Holton.

[bloke]

precariously laid together...not soldered:

...and not properly lined up, either...

...and wow...I'd better NEVER dent the inside portion of the bell flair. I'd either have to hillbilly-fix it (with a tapered trumpet rod) or take the bell completely off.