Felts do matter

[MiBrassFS]

I’ve been fiddling with this Willson 2704 euphonium. I’ve found things stuffed in it, it had broken solder joints, dents, and bends in the valve set. Everything is mostly all set now so I reassembled it and aligned the valves. I kept what came on it as a reference, but never trust any of that sort of stuff.

Well, someone slapped “whatever” on it! Every valve was 3+ millimeters off under the caps and @2 millimeters off under the buttons.

It actually didn’t play all that bad before all the work (well, it was “playable!”), surprisingly, but now it’s total different. I’m going to offer it back to the last owner. He traded me for a trombone, which he can keep. He’s going to be surprised by the change in his euphonium, I do believe!

Edit: Well, he can keep the trombone as I don’t need it back, but, come on, he’d have to pony up for the euphonium. I’m no Rockefeller…

[arpthark]

Can someone explain the proper way to take measurements to align valves without a borescope or visually checking? I don't have one of those long brass tools, but can make one.

[bloke]

Use calipers and a gauge, but most people don't know how to use anything other than a phone, so...

[MiBrassFS]

I have an old school, pretty inflexible, borescope without any “smart” capabilities (a length of fiber optic, a light, and a lens). When it’s usable (straight shots, etc.), it’s dandy. More often than not, I use a valve felt measuring gadget (akin to a trumpet lyre with a sliding lyre mount), calipers, and a couple of small mirrors on sticks that allow me to look through knuckles. What I use depends on the situation.

[bloke]

I would be willing to take pictures of how to measure for washer thickness without electricity, but it would take a good bit longer than the posts about (boring-to-me) repairs that I do.

I might (??) post some pics...sometime...

Dial calipers (.001" not .01"), and a (single) tool made from lyre stock, a lyre holder, a drill, a couple of pieces of wire, and the ability to silver braze are the two things needed. (Such a tool is available to purchase, but the one that I've seen offered for sale is clunky - thus: a bit unreliable imo.)

So many people seem to shy away from that which is 3D (as well as arithmetic), that I'm not sure how many people it would liberate from having to go to a "tech" (or repair-guy) to have this done...and I'm not sure how many of either of those are proficient...(??)

...and sorry for butting in (and not meaning to contradict)...and bore scopes are ok, I suppose, but - to me - a nuisance (unless I'm looking at things other than piston alignment).

bloke "Probably, I'm lazy, and - as with paper sheet music - prefer the old reliable...and yeah: My Dad could outrun sometime tapping into a calculator with his slide rule. MAIN POINT: FELTS DO MATTER !!!!!"

[MiBrassFS]

I haven’t sought a better borescope because I think they don’t give me enough of what I want to do the job, so no butting in at all as I do agree. It really only gets used to verify after the fact.

[gocsick]

Can someone explain the proper way to take measurements to align valves without a borescope or visually checking? I don't have one of those long brass tools, but can make one.

I bought a $15 endoscopic camera off Amazon a while ago for trying to retrieve a ring from a shower drain without tearing into my dining room ceiling. It came with s little hook attachment and also a has a right angle mirror attachment. It isn't the greatest picture quality but it works well enough to check valve alignment. I use the straight view for going to the valve circuits and the mirror for going down the valve casing.

Definitely not pro level equipment but for the money it works OK.

[York-aholic]

Can someone explain the proper way to take measurements to align valves without a borescope or visually checking? I don't have one of those long brass tools, but can make one.

I bought a $15 endoscopic camera off Amazon a while ago for trying to retrieve a ring from a shower drain without tearing into my dining room ceiling. It came with s little hook attachment and also a has a right angle mirror attachment. It isn't the greatest picture quality but it works well enough to check valve alignment. I use the straight view for going to the valve circuits and the mirror for going down the valve casing.

Definitely not pro level equipment but for the money it works OK.

But did you save the ring?

[bloke]

I'm definitely making a pictorial - not a video - with a picture of the little measuring tool and how to determine washer thickness.

No, I'm not claiming to be the only person who possesses this "secret mountaintop knowledge", but it's probably time for more people to be shown.