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bloke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:00 pm
top secret information - only for 'fesshunulz: It's easy to play a "low F" on a B-flat tuba without a 5th valve.

Say it ain’t so, Joe!

I'm trying to whoop this store-owned BB-345's bottom bow into shape, today.
I have a hint of a cold (not bad), but it's taking a WHOLE BUNCH of coffee to get "some" work out of this body.

...' also sucking on those zinc orange-flavored "melts" (tablets).

bloke "orange zinc-impregnated Fizzies"

FIZZIES


ZICAM

2 weeks to flatten the.....bell...I mean curve.

I've nearly got my Holton BB-345 twin spin shop-owned instrument (left) caught up with with the customer-owned one (right).
Neither is stuck together, so "alignment" (with both) is currently friction/gravity-dependent. (These projects are getting attention as needed parts arrive, and around/in-between school repairs obligations.) Obviously, the solder seams on the shop-owned bottom bow have not been cleaned up.

Based on old solder marks (slanted - on the small side) and the painstaking rounding that I did on the bottom bow (shop-owned on the left) - whereby the upper bow NOW sits SQUARELY on the small size of the bottom bow (rather than slanted), I actually believe that I probably RE-manufactured it better (??) than it was originally manufactured.



bloke "Apparently, there's actually a masonry restoration company - tuckpointing, etc... (located only about an hour northeast of Elkhorn, WI) called "Holton Bros"...SURELY, they've GOT to be related...(??)"

Interesting how different those horns are.

matt g wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:46 pm Interesting how different those horns are.

text from previous post wrote:Neither is stuck together, so "alignment" (with both) is currently friction/gravity-dependent.

...but they are very subtly different, and I will strive to assemble them as same-ish as I can manage.

matt g wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:46 pmInteresting how different those horns are.

That is a well-known hallmark of the whole 34X series of horns — from the factory, brand stinking new.

They tend to "vary".

Very quick and dirty image cobbling, and my horn is slightly smaller, but I could not figure out how to make them scaled the same since they are also shot at slightly different angles. (My bell looks skinnier, but isn't.)

I like the differences in the factory BBb and the CC using Rusk's cut points. Also, note how freakishly huge the outer corner of my top bow is. I suspect the node for that bottom line G is located right there, and is being shifted over a little due to the girth of that location. I think you are right about that.

When people go on about cutting a BBb to CC like it is some simple exercise, this photo shows just how much 24" of tubing is, and you can clearly see what it does to the taper rate on a horn that "blossoms" this quickly after the valves. Cutting a horn is a lot of very risky work that can easily result in an expensive pile of junk.

the elephant wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:15 pm

That is really cool how you got those bottles of Brasso and 3in1 Oil to stick to the ceiling.



Must be getting late, as that actually seemed to be funny for a couple of seconds...

This wasn’t particularly scientific, but I slid a chunk of 2x2 up into the upper bow of a Holton years ago, moved it around to a few different places, and blew through the instrument (at a downward angle, obviously) and the third partial was unaltered.

Over the years (and rethinking this), I believe that the second partial open pitch tends to be sharper than the third partial open pitch tends to be flat, but people tend to hang their tuning reference on the second partial, which (particularly with an often-sharp sixth partial to boot) tends to define the third partial as the worst problem...

...and - again - more then a few old Holton’s really aren’t too problematic…with some of them behaving just about as well as a Yamaha 826.

Here are some "money shots" of the Holton model BB-345 6/4 bottom bow - for the tuba that we're (Mid-South Music, Inc.) slicking out, and will be offering for sale.
"Gee...I wonder what that thing weighs," wonders someone from the peanut gallery.
The answer is 4 lbs. 13 oz.


I really like the absolutely-as-original look of this guard wire (which I found for sale online at a metals supply place), but (being made of SOLID brass - not cupped/hollow, and flat on the back), it's a bit tricky to solder (though not attempting to exaggerate my skill/experience level...requires being able to use a torch just a bit like an artist's brush) to two layers of sheet metal, and - thus - I would not recommend it for everyone. It's also a little bit of a chore to bend. Interestingly, its alloy (color, etc.) appears to be the same one the Holton used for its bow connector rings (ie. high copper content).

sorry on this one: resolution level screw-up

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:10 pm

Was parallel-ity achieved by trimming or by massaging the metal (the later I’m assuming)?

Omagosh, I would shave looking at that every morning!!

the rounding rings
Had I cheated and ground, trimmed, or filed it,
that edge would be straighter than it is.

York-aholic wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:34 pm

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:10 pm

Was parallel-ity achieved by trimming or by massaging the metal (the later I’m assuming)?

copy/paste from an email I just sent to Christian Niedermaier, in which I wrote: I dragged my feet ordering that special tuning slide bow from you, because I felt like I probably had something here in one of my endless boxes of $hit.
Sure enough, (too late) I stumbled across “the perfect bow“ yesterday. It looks like it came off of one of those ancient/idiotic “convert C to B-flat“ 186 gadgets from several decades ago.

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:10 am

copy/paste from an email I just sent to Christian Niedermaier, in which I wrote: I dragged my feet ordering that special tuning slide bow from you, because I felt like I probably had something here in one of my endless boxes of $hit.
Sure enough, (too late) I stumbled across “the perfect bow“ yesterday. It looks like it came off of one of those ancient/idiotic “convert C to B-flat“ 186 gadgets from several decades ago.

Ha! That brings back memories of an indiscretion of youth: I had a fairly early 186 (serial 1605 or 1607 I seem to remember, but could certainly be making that up) with a detachable recording bell. I came across an extra recording bell, so took the male tenon to Zig Kanstul to see if he could make an upright bell (in the early 90s before he started making them for Martins, Conns, etc). He kindly walked over and grabbed a contra grande bell that had a blemish where the rim rolled over the rim wire) had someone put it back on the mandrel, put my tenon on it and cut it to length, as well as solder the tenon on. I think he charged me $150. I left happy as a clam.

Then I got home and discovered I now owned a very rare 186 BB (natural).



That lead me to Robb Stewarts shop. He pulled out one of those Miraphone CC to BBb thing-a-ma-bobbers and shortened it a bit. That got me off and running. It wasn't ideal, bu then again, neither was (is) my playing...

York-aholic wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:25 pm... one of those Miraphone CC to BBb thing-a-ma-bobbers... It wasn't ideal...

I am willing to attest to and certify this portion of your post.

For others:
A no-valves/no-bell-cracks YBB-201/321 bell or Besson 223/226 bell are some good candidates for such an endeavor...

...and it's always better to go so someone who knows something about tubas.

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:35 pm ...and it's always better to go so someone who knows something about tubas.

Well…yes…but…

I was a brand new college student, didn’t know any other tubs players, had never taken a lesson and the internet really didn’t exist.

One does what one can with what one has.

I wonder if I can take a break from other stuff and stick these two bodies together today, so I can get them off this sofa and over in the corner standing on their bells, until I can get their valvesets done...(??)

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:33 am I wonder if I can take a break from other stuff and stick these two bodies together today, so I can get them off this sofa and over in the corner standing on their bells, until I can get their valves that’s done...(??)

Only one way to find out. Ask the BOSS.