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bloke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:09 am
Lacking are a couple of braces...

I will brace it to an adjacent body bow...

I am really trying to avoid long three-piece “pillar” brave assemblies, as such are typically found on Frankentubas - where piston valvesets hover well above the wrap of the bugle.
Again, I have gone to a great deal of trouble to “nestle“ this piston valveset down into the wrap of the bugle as low as possible - eliminating the need for such braces.

Email or PM me some brace dimensions and I'll look through the box of King braces if you're going "King"...

York-aholic wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:06 pm

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:09 am
Lacking are a couple of braces...

I will brace it to an adjacent body bow...

I am really trying to avoid long three-piece “pillar” brave assemblies, as such are typically found on Frankentubas - where piston valvesets hover well above the wrap of the bugle.
Again, I have gone to a great deal of trouble to “nestle“ this piston valveset down into the wrap of the bugle as low as possible - eliminating the need for such braces.

Email or PM me some brace dimensions and I'll look through the box of King braces if you're going "King"...

sorry...but no...thank-you !
I have braces. It is the TUBA (not me) that is lacking them.

bloke wrote:I am really trying to avoid long three-piece “pillar” brave assemblies, as such are typically found on Frankentubas - where piston valvesets hover well above the wrap of the bugle.
Again, I have gone to a great deal of trouble to “nestle“ this piston valveset down into the wrap of the bugle as low as possible - eliminating the need for such braces.

I didn't realize that adjustable braces were typically limited to "frankentubas". From what I've seen, Holton, York, King, and sometimes Conn, among others, regularly used them to anchor their valve machines to their horns.

FWIW, the only time I've ever seen "one piece" braces in this application were on foreign made (particularly German/eastern European) horns.

Yorkboy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:33 pm

bloke wrote:I am really trying to avoid long three-piece “pillar” brave assemblies, as such are typically found on Frankentubas - where piston valvesets hover well above the wrap of the bugle.
Again, I have gone to a great deal of trouble to “nestle“ this piston valveset down into the wrap of the bugle as low as possible - eliminating the need for such braces.

I didn't realize that adjustable braces were typically limited to "frankentubas". From what I've seen, Holton, York, King, and sometimes Conn, among others, regularly used them to anchor their valve machines to their horns.

From the way you phrase it, (and forgive me if I'm wrong), I'd infer that you look upon this method as being somewhat inferior.

FWIW, the only time I've ever seen "one piece" braces in this application were on foreign made (particularly German) horns.

That to which I'm referring is only this:
avoiding towering pillars that span downward (inward) from the valveset back to the bugle
(not whether some brace is solid-brazed or 3-piece)

Check out this (fabulous-playing, but perhaps) hastily-designed FACTORY (not-inexpensive) tuba that I own:
The valveset sets way out in front of the bugle, and long pillars hold it down to the valveset.
This allows for "sticking" a mostly-generic valveset on to (most any) tuba's bugle:




The way I've "nestled" the valveset on my Holton project, all that is visible (of the 1st valve casing)
from this same angle is the top valve cap, stem, and finger button.

Ah, I misunderstood you

Are those braces "one piece"? They are mighty long, for sure. I wouldn't have thought of a new horn from a factory to be a "frankentuba", but I guess you could make a case for it to be an accurate description.

Yorkboy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:05 pm Ah, I misunderstood you

Are those braces "one piece"? They are mighty long, for sure. I wouldn't have thought of a new horn from a factory to be a "frankentuba", but I guess you could make a case for it to be an accurate description.

edited, in the midst of you posting...
Read my very last (small-print) line, below the last picture...

I'm sorry, I didn't see the edit to which you are referring (all I see is bold type)

Yorkboy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:16 pm I'm sorry, I didn't see the edit to which you are referring (all I see is bold type)

The caption below the last picture (which is the edit) wrote:The way I've "nestled" the valveset on my Holton project, all that is visible (of the 1st valve casing) from this same angle is the top valve cap, stem, and finger button.

OK thanks, I see it now.

Here are a few updated pictures, including a demonstration pic. of how "sunken in" the valveset it.
It's a real player.

I Just have to blow it sort of (not exactly) like the cimbasso (same bore size, larger mouthPIECE, larger/way-shorter mouthPIPE).

Remaining are a brace or two (probably a good idea to put one underneath the large side of the main slide), a half dozen water keys, thumb linkage for the 5th valve, chopping 1/8" off each of the pistons valve stems, and a finish. There are THREE #4 circuit slides - two lower and one upper.


It's comfortable to hold-and-play setting on the chair seat in a mostly-upright position...or on my thighs and more tilted.



Here are some cute #4 circuit braces (again: avoiding tall "pillar" bracing).

Handsome!

Having never played a cimbasso, could you describe a little more in depth what you mean?

Also, what was the final length of your mouthpipe (including the receiver)?

Since you own some 3/4 inch bore and some 11/16 inch bore tubas, It’s just the same thing having to do with how those different instruments are approached.
I chose to not wind the mouthpipe tube way around the bell (ref: as rotary instruments’ mouthpipe tubes tend to be wound way around the bells of those tubas), and it’s probably more like the CSO York mouthpipe and knock-offs.
Including the hidden large insertion end - out to the tip of the receiver, it’s about 17 inches long.
The receiver is about halfway between standard and euro, but will accommodate either, and the mouthpipe starts out fairly large - compared to that which I’m mostly accustomed: roughly 11/20” inside.
Mrs. bloke says that it does not sound like a small tuba, and – to me – it does not sound like a “fluffy“ tuba. I believe there is some expectation of how a wide-bell tuba is going to sound, and they don’t always sound like that.
—————
This following sentence is not any expression of regret at all, but HAD I wrapped the mouthpipe around the bell farther, and HAD I not epically shortened the main slide ferrules and bow, I may not have had to use that taller/longer King 5th branch, as seems to be the standard tack for these conversions...but I DO like the King piece being up there, as well as the angle at which I’m holding the instrument, and the distance of the main slide bow from my chair seat, so all is very good.
Since either standard or euro mouthpieces might be used - as well as shallow. medium, or deep, I believe that the place where I have set the instrument’s tuning slide (for “pitch”) is a good spot, which allows for both inward and outward adjustment.

Excellent all around!

With some of my earlier projects, I made the mistake of bringing the mouthpipe all the way around the bell, like on a rotary valve tuba. That's a recipe for carpal tunnel syndrome, at least with my short arms.

I find the smaller the bore, the "slower the air", especially down low. Does that line up with what you mean?

I like the 5th valve placement, however on my TU330 CC there isn't that much of a straight stretch out of the MTS to position a rotary valve, would it be possible to swap out the original valve cluster with a 2341?

I tend to suspect that the Phillips C model might be a cut-to-C version of this ancient student model, and that part of shortening it to C was making that straight portion of the dogleg disappear...
...so – even though I really can’t know for sure – I would tend to suspect that the difference is not so much in the valveset, but in the dogleg and the small upper bow preceding the dogleg.

As a reminder, this project instrument is a B-flat instrument.

If you do as Bloke and make a long semitone out of your 5th but you can’t seem to fit it after the mts, you could easily make it a dependent valve.

Will there be enough room in the wrap to use a flat whole step 5th valve slide, depending on the slide shape, if one so desired?

Doc wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:47 pm Will there be enough room in the wrap to use a flat whole step 5th valve slide, depending on the slide shape, if one so desired?

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:26 pm If a future owner - or I - decide that a "long FF whole step 5th valve is more beneficial than I'm currently assessing, a longer contraption can easily be assembled (with Conn-Selmer 3/4" bore inside/outside slide tubing) to insert into the instrument's existing pair of outside slide tubes.

Kirley wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:58 pm

Doc wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:47 pm Will there be enough room in the wrap to use a flat whole step 5th valve slide, depending on the slide shape, if one so desired?

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:26 pm If a future owner - or I - decide that a "long FF whole step 5th valve is more beneficial than I'm currently assessing, a longer contraption can easily be assembled (with Conn-Selmer 3/4" bore inside/outside slide tubing) to insert into the instrument's existing pair of outside slide tubes.

Thanks. I missed that.

I was really hoping to get this thing playable in time for a “light classics + pops” orchestra concert in less than a month.
Maybe, I will make it…??, but “that which is larger than myself” has blessed me with some customer work, which always takes precedent. As part of the “gig economy” (“If I don’t work, I don’t eat“), my only income results from actual production, and there are no such things as “zoom repairs“, so…