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Then what??

Marathon Man that’s what!!

Brahms II dress reh.
(Why is it called "dress"...??)


principal trombone has a cold, and was being considerate.
for trombone nerds: He owns a (pre-B&S) Courtois alto and a Bach alto; he prefers the Courtois.

Joe, one of the things you said would be done near last is valve venting...

My experience playing a 5450 is that the 1st valve will leak water out the bottom of the valve. I assume that is because they put the vent hole on the spot where the output sits not where the input sits.

If you can make sense of my description, do you think that is correct?

If that is correct, do you think any valve venting on my Holton could be placed to discourage water draining into the piston?

I’m pretty sure that water drips from there because the mouthpipe tube is so warm, and I cannot think of any other plausible explanation.

That particular mouthpipe tube is also fairly small and fairly short, which defines that it will warm up even more easily than most.

OK...Maybe a two-months hiatus isn't all THAT terrible...UNLESS it's SOMEONE'S ELSE instrument !!!
As some know, I was sick, and then I got Mrs. bloke sick, and had to take care of her and her animals/chores/etc.
Also - in August - I was offered several (extra) thousands of bucks of playing work (over the entire fall), and I just can't be turning that down...
ie. "OK...bloke's 'too busy' to be called for gigs anymore...etc..." would be a disaster.
Also (AFTER being sick), I had to catch up with all of the SMALL (schools, individuals) 30-minute to 2-hour jobs that had just been sitting.
(and yes...I can play gigs JUST FINE when I'm sick as hell...but I don't want to risk doing critical work on others' instruments when I'm not able to really concentrate, and when I'm quite physically weak, etc.)

...so - after two more epic gigs, the gig-age will do it's typical new-year slow-down, and I'm ALREADY (HA!..."already"... ) back working on this epic job for @tubaing.

I just finished tackling (after all of the slide alignment and removal of all of the tubing, knuckle, and slide bow doinks) the VERY critical mounting of the valveset to the inner bugle. I got it on there "pretty good", took a look at it, and (as front-to-back was "good") moved the top from left-to-right (slightly), and then (yup) had to go back and realign a couple of the slides.

Now that it's on their ("solid"), the only valveset mounting braces that are left (to install) are the three LONG braces (to the large upper bow), but the thing is positioned - now - as well as it can be, and won't be moving - so all I'll be doing with those braces (and I have scrounged enough genuine/vintage Holton brace flanges, btw) is simply installing them.

After sticking on the bottom bow and bell, the FINAL challenge will be (if I can...??) re-bending the mouthpipe tube - because someone (who fubar'ed the mount job the last time this thing was (apparently) taken apart, ALSO fubar'ed the mouthpipe tube - in order to line up with their fubar mount gig...(yeah: "gig" - meaning "job"...not "jig"...I ain' got no mounting "jeeegz".)
Check out the red reference line (in one of the pictures) vs. the yellow line.
When I received the instrument, the top of the valveset was FARTHER OUT THAN the yellow line indicates.

...so (though - yeah... - I know what a 345 "looks like" - I had to figure out where everything REALLY belongs (seat-o'-pants beauty/symmetry-judging)...and - yeah...marks show me that a good bit of the oem mount job (though not as bad as the re-mount job later) was fubar, as well. As an example, I moved the upper bow of the #4 circuit - as well as it's brace (where it solders to the #1 slide) a HALF INCH from the factory mark. ...and that's just one example. (I believe these parts - on these instruments - were FABRICATED fairly well, but were not ASSEMBLED very well AT ALL.)

...so I hope @tubaing is somewhat forgiving, because I believe it's going to be pretty friggin' good, when it's all stuck together. @bloke's ego is pretty inflated (his Mom had a copy of the Dr. Spock baby book), which encourages @bloke to always try to do better than a poor ol' bloke should actually be able to do.

...and yeah: I have completely un-fubar'ed VERY FEW of these 345 things over the last four decades, just fwiw...

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:23 pm

I never really noticed/cared how far the valve section was off of the bugle... but now that it's mounted this way, it looks really good.

My mother was a commercial artist probably about 75 years before before any sort of computer-assist.
At home drawing pictures (pre-school-aged), I would get interested in some of the things that she might be drawing (for whatever utility purposes, or for helping out with my much older siblings school projects, etc.) and (as little kids are wont to do) would try to copy what she was doing. Of course, I wouldn’t do a very good job of copying off of her, but then she would sit down with me, helped me, and taught me some things about symmetry/scale/proportion/alignment, and all sorts of things. She didn’t formally teach me, but I believe some of it stuck, and helps me a whole bunch when putting trumpets together and putting tubas together…
Trombones and French horns seem to be a little easier to stick back together (as - alignment-wise – they seem to more take care of themselves) than trumpets and tubas.
I have to admit, though, when repaired formerly badly damaged large/long tuba bows and even long tapered curved French horn bell sections end up getting out of plane, it drives me nuts, and I just can’t let it go. Sometimes, that might (??) be to my own detriment.

My 345's bows cannot be reassembled to where they do not look wonky. It is not possible. I have everything looking quite nice, except for one joint, between the top bow and 3rd branch, and it looks REALLY CRAPTASTIC to me, but no one sees it unless they are in the "driver's seat" so I try hard to not look at it during tacets. It drives me nuts. All the bows were over bent, so all have ends that point slightly toward one another. Ugh…

@bloke are you still planning to take the valve section off again?

Rethinking, because it’s so much trouble to get it on there just right

tubaing wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:46 pm @bloke are you still planning to take the valve section off again?

I’ve got just the thing to cloak that connection from your view:
(You can thank me later.)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284547849997

the elephant wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:34 pm My 345's bows cannot be reassembled to where they do not look wonky. It is not possible. I have everything looking quite nice, except for one joint, between the top bow and 3rd branch, and it looks REALLY CRAPTASTIC to me, but no one sees it unless they are in the "driver's seat" so I try hard to not look at it during tacets. It drives me nuts. All the bows were over bent, so all have ends that point slightly toward one another. Ugh…

@bloke did you end up removing the crooks from all/most of the tuning slides?

Some of them, more than once.
(The valveset mounting job was slightly hard on a couple of the alignments.)

I'm now thinking that I might put a bead-blast finish on the instrument WITHOUT the bell installed, THEN put a bead-blast finish on the bell, THEN install the bell, THEN touch up the bead-blast finish.

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:47 pm I'm now thinking that I might put a bead-blast finish on the instrument WITHOUT the bell installed, THEN put a bead-blast finish on the bell, THEN install the bell, THEN touch up the bead-blast finish.

Is this one going to be a frosted silver finish?

Tubajug wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:10 pm

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:47 pm I'm now thinking that I might put a bead-blast finish on the instrument WITHOUT the bell installed, THEN put a bead-blast finish on the bell, THEN install the bell, THEN touch up the bead-blast finish.

Is this one going to be a frosted silver finish?

That’s the plan.

OK...This brace rod may look L-O-N-G, but - when you look at how many bows are stacked under there,
(plus the necessary "escape" for the mouthpipe)
you will see that it's as friggin' SHORT as it can possibly be.

Archeological digs reveal that the original two braces were not lined up with the other two pair,
but - at least, to me - this "looks cool"...so this is what I did:
(and the spacing of both is - unlike what I was handed - UNDER 2 inches ).


OK...The valveset is cemented down, "hard". (All of its braces are in place, and not merely those which control its positioning.)

I believe all of the slides' alignment (there's no plural for "alignment", is there?) is good, even though some of them are just a bit tight, at this point.

Besides the top of the valveset (from a previous "whatever") hanging way out on the top end, there were a bunch of (disgustingly-round) Conn brace feet.
Since I'm such a green environmentalist (rather than making new ones from scratch on the lathe, and brazing them to hand-cut diamond feet) I'm trying to locate and RECYCLE original Holton brace socket-flanges. A good friend (who I've not yet met in-person) helped me with several, and I also had several more. I found that I had some that were a bit larger (larger same-style diamond flanges and socket turnings, YET still strongly state "HOLTON !!!") so I used a pair of those on the two braces on from the 4th slide to the large upper bow (against the large upper bow) as a matched pair.

This whole re-bracing thing has involved "archeology" as
- it wasn't put BACK together correctly, and
- it wasn't PUT together correctly, in the first place.

I HAVE dragged along, but - as this involves DECISIONS made on SOMEONE'S ELSE thing, I (with apologies) need to be in the right mood to "forge ahead" and convince myself, "YES, bloke...This is GOOD. ONWARD, man !!!"

...so what's left?

I'm going to PERMANENTLY install the bottom bow (which is MORE decision-making, because Holton bottom bows are GOOFY as crap (THOUGH I painstakingly sort-of REMADE this one - so that - from end-to-end it's actually ROUND, inside), and this part's installation will completely have effects on the overall appearance, bell attitude, mouthpipe alignment...blah, blah, and blah-blah-blah.

After that, I'm going to BARELY tack the bell in place (in order to RE-BEND the previously STUPIDLY-BENT mouthpipe (which was badly distorted, to accommodate the previous HORRIBLE valveset remount job).

Once I'm satisfied with that (sigh...) I'm going to get my longtime-owned-but-never-set-up bead-blast cabinet (a big-un) set up and working, and TEACH myself (with junk parts) how to do it beautifully/evenly, and without _ _ _ _ing up the tuba.

...My plan is to bead-blast everything BUT the bell and mouthpipe, bead-blast them separately, final-install them, and touch up the solder joints with more bead blasting.

bloke "wishing that Anderson had not stopped offering that service"

OK...
This is beginning to resemble a tuba...a really B.A.T...

Mrs. bloke helped me line up the bottom bow. I couldn't make things look absolutely perfect from every angle, and she (via sanity) instructed me to

Find the best compromise, and let's get on with it.

Once on, it looks...well, really good.

The bell "follows" the bottom bow, so it took about 1/100 the amount of time to position.

Both are "tacked" on with solder joints (very roughly: 180° apart) that are roughly an inch long...secure enough to not fail.

@tubaing The mouthpipe tube bend is really goofy, but looks perfect (and lines up perfectly) when laid on the tuba, so it will be unaltered (other than a handful of pinpoint-ish peck dents which need to be removed). I'm now quite sure that it was bent this way (at the factory) to assist in clearing that small upper bow (just below it), and it also seems that my "assembly archeology" skills are pretty damn good, because the huge stuff (which easily can be way off) lines up with the little stuff.

I'm not sticking the bell/upper large bow brace in at this time, because I might (per idea) take the bell/bottom/bow/mouthpipe off as one unit and reinstall that assembly later...and yes: I'll put some light reassembly marks on the small end of the bottom bow.
(For a play-test, I'll probably stick a piece of cork and some duct tape "up there" - where the upper bell brace will eventually be installed.)

I don't know how many Holton 345 pictures most people have looked at, but the reason the bottom bow might look smaller, is because it isn't as "tall", because I worked VERY hard to get the bottom bow's bore (through the entire bottom bow) ROUND, instead of oval.



The receiver brace flange is currently ill-fitting, because the bell formerly had the crap beat out of it:




bloke "Don't try this at home."

That’s about as “square” as I’ve seen any 6/4 Holton of that era lined up. My old “short action” 105 (or whatever the part number was) was absolutely put together with more care than the “post Jacobs” 345s.

Looks great! I’m sure it’ll be a stunner once you’re done with the final fit and finish.