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Are the 1" keels the standard for these horns from back in the day?

My 1960 CC has one, and I'm sure not used to it, my newer/old (1998 CC) one just had the tiny little keel, and it fit perfectly on my lap, as I'm 6ft. 230lbs. I'm finding I actually have to sit the keel on the chair to get a good angle on the mouthpiece, which involves me doing quite the sitting split to stay on the chair, and it's a little hard on the wooded chair in my practice spot. I tend to move with the music, but not now, I feel like all I can do is point straight ahead like a ship of the line. No tacking or jibing.

Yeah I think they were designed to rest on a chair, but people - on average - got taller, and they tended to rest them on their laps.

bloke wrote: Thu Aug 21, 2025 7:20 am Yeah I think they were designed to rest on a chair, but people - on average - got taller, and they tended to rest them on their laps.

I guess that makes sense, maybe mine was made for a tank driver. It takes some adjusting to get used to, and I'm going to have to make sure my dress pants don't tear a seam!

prodigal wrote: Thu Aug 21, 2025 8:23 am

bloke wrote: Thu Aug 21, 2025 7:20 am Yeah I think they were designed to rest on a chair, but people - on average - got taller, and they tended to rest them on their laps.

I guess that makes sense, maybe mine was made for a tank driver. It takes some adjusting to get used to, and I'm going to have to make sure my dress pants don't tear a seam!

If you have the tall one, it's easy to have it unsoldered, trimmed down, ground down, filed down, buffed down, soldered back in place, and cleaned up.

If you're determined to spend some additional money, order one of the modern ones and just swap them out.

Good idea, I'll think about that. It has the cool old bell like the one you're working on. I like that a lot!

I've never encountered this before:

a Miraphone #2 slide pull ring flange that (apparently) is silver-brazed to the slide bow.

OK...I'll KEEP the new flange/ring assembly I bought for another time.

I have a trumpet-buddy/customer-jewelry-store-owner, but that's a two-hour round trip.

All I had here is nickel-brass rod, pliers, smooth-jaw vice, silver solder/flux, and my fingers.

This is the best I could manage in a half hour.
(I ain't no ring-maker...at least, not usually.)

Obviously, it's not perfect...Maybe (??) it will "do".

bloke wrote: Thu Aug 21, 2025 10:43 am I've never encountered this before:

a Miraphone #2 slide pull ring flange that (apparently) is silver-brazed to the slide bow.

OK...I'll KEEP the new flange/ring assembly I bought for another time.

I have a trumpet-buddy/customer-jewelry-store-owner, but that's a two-hour round trip.

All I had here is nickel-brass rod, pliers, smooth-jaw vice, silver solder/flux, and my fingers.

This is the best I could manage in a half hour.
(I ain't no ring-maker...at least, not usually.)

Obviously, it's not perfect...Maybe (??) it will "do".

It might be easier to grab if it isn't perfectly round.

Sort of the opposite of sour grapes. LOL

bloke wrote: Wed Aug 20, 2025 7:26 pm It doesn't look all that different today, but the difference is somewhat significant:

This picture made me really happy! Here is the "before" photo, prior to "Craftsman Bloke" taking his shot...

The flange is brazed on?? What the heck?

arpthark wrote: Thu Aug 21, 2025 6:26 pm The flange is brazed on?? What the heck?

Yeah, I heated the "fog" out of it, and it didn't even begin to bubble. The slide tubes began bubbling on the edges of the ferrules, but not the flange.
...but since that little oval hole was in the middle of the flange (from the original pull ring being busted off), this one ended up being silver soldered to the both the flange and the slide bow.

I betcha it will stay... at least until this owner of this 186 croaks.

Everything is stuck on other than the auxiliary stuff on the bell...

- thumb ring (Some people take theirs off.)
- lyre holder (No one uses this.)
- strap ring (No one uses this, either.)

I'd like to finish this up by Monday...We'll see ??
I might - at least - stick those three things onto this tonight.

I'd like to (possibly) mow (for the first time this summer) over the weekend, and it's going to take QUITE A FEW days to get this place mowed, the thatch trailered, hauled off, and dumped into various ravines.

I also promised my sister (out of town visiting a sick friend) that I'd fix her attic stairs. (A very capable friend of mine replaced a water heater up in her attic, but - even though he's slim and wiry - those "builder grade" fold-down stairs weren't made to hold BOTH him AND a water tank.





Even though this bell is new/VERY old stock (being that it's been sitting around for DECADES), there was some minor damage here and there.
After a surface polish, I addressed most all of that stuff, but (again) no filing or sanding, so some of the little bell repairs are apparent.





CAT UPDATE...

Normal routines are returning...I thinking/hoping everything is going to be OK. (another miracle)
Here he is right here/right now perched on his regular "Hey bloke...It's you-and-me, bloke" top-of-printer/scanner spot:

Been a while since a classic corner-of-bloke’s-log-house pic. Nice cat, too. And nice job on the horn!

Those pics make me wish I had hung onto the 186 I had. Looks fantastic. We really appreciate your hard work refurbishing these horns.

Grumpikins wrote: Fri Aug 22, 2025 6:32 pm Those pics make me wish I had hung onto the 186 I had. Looks fantastic. We really appreciate your hard work refurbishing these horns.

I have one to sell that I meant to restore side by side with this one, but this guy really wants this horn back quickly. He has waited all summer..

I must be a mutant then . . . . I have recently started using a strap on my similar vintage 186, and find it helps my stability (and keeps me from fumbling it as well!)

YMMV . ..

Looks great, as well! (If ai ever get mine to you, it will seem trivial by compasison . . . )

- Tim

bloke wrote: Fri Aug 22, 2025 3:33 pm Everything is stuck on other than the auxiliary stuff on the bell...

- thumb ring (Some people take theirs off.)
- lyre holder (No one uses this.)
- strap ring (No one uses this, either.)

I'd like to finish this up by Monday...We'll see ??
I might - at least - stick those three things onto this tonight.

I'd like to (possibly) mow (for the first time this summer) over the weekend, and it's going to take QUITE A FEW days to get this place mowed, the thatch trailered, hauled off, and dumped into various ravines.

I also promised my sister (out of town visiting a sick friend) that I'd fix her attic stairs. (A very capable friend of mine replaced a water heater up in her attic, but - even though he's slim and wiry - those "builder grade" fold-down stairs weren't made to hold BOTH him AND a water tank.





Even though this bell is new/VERY old stock (being that it's been sitting around for DECADES), there was some minor damage here and there.
After a surface polish, I addressed most all of that stuff, but (again) no filing or sanding, so some of the little bell repairs are apparent.





CAT UPDATE...

Normal routines are returning...I thinking/hoping everything is going to be OK. (another miracle)
Here he is right here/right now perched on his regular "Hey bloke...It's you-and-me, bloke" top-of-printer/scanner spot:

If someone actually is able to march using a simple strap with those two strap rings on the back of a 186 where they're factory located, I'd like to see what that person looks like. It's pretty clear that the purpose of those two strap rings is to pre-contact a horizontal surface to discourage denting when the instrument is set down flat...which is why they are bent into curved rectangles, instead of circles.

As you have found a way to make use of one of those, I think that's great.
-----------------
@Grumpikins
"hard work"... I've had to dig long trenches before without a trenching machine. This ain't so hard, but thanks.

Didn't say marching . . . it helps me in a chair . . . .

(I can't, for that matter, imagine wanting to march with a 186 . . . that's what Sousaphones are for . . . )

tadawson wrote: Sat Aug 23, 2025 4:39 pm Didn't say marching . . . it helps me in a chair . . . .

(I can't, for that matter, imagine wanting to march with an186 . . . that's what Sousaphones are for . . . )

I promise - solemnly swear - that I won't interfere with - nor attempt in any way to prohibit - those activities of yours.

The strap ring, lyre holder, and thumb ring assembly are installed. I didn't have the flange/nut thing for the adjustable thumb ring, so I made one out of a spare lyre holder and a broken-off-threads (how did someone manage that?) Conn sousaphone bell screw (ground out concave on top, drilled down through the middle, and tapped with a 5mm thread...yes, OF COURSE it's silver-brazed to the *vesica viscis flange...so you would expect me to use Gorilla Glue...!?!?). Do y'all think it looks "legit" enough?

I lined up the rotors by hand for "open", inserted the main slide, and (for the first time ever) this super-duper-old/new-stock bell played a B-flat overtone series (with the trusty bunged-up no-name shop 24AW).

I suppose it's ready to final polish and try my crazy stunts with lacquer...maybe Monday (??)

I'm still not feeling that great (from whatever was oily on the tile floor that caused me to slip and hit the deck, two or three nights ago).
Tomorrow, I might (though I hoped to, today) fix my sister's attic stairs and (if it starts up) begin the EPIC mowing job, around here.







yeah...I might cut the soldered edges in just a little bit better, but - hey - I'm also NOT re-lacquering the entire instrument.
(This is not a "make like new", but a VERY extensive repair. I'm trying to do "REALLY good", but - again - I ain't tryin' to fool nobody.)

___________________________________________
* ' saved y'all the trouble: https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... ica+Piscis
(and yes...not quite, but almost)


JUST NOW, MY SURGERY-RECOVERING CAT ATE MORE THAN HALF A CAN OF CHEAP (yeah: human-consumption-type) CHUNK LIGHT TUNA !