Skin issues on my upper lip

[BopEuph]

So, while I'm trying out the new pieces (they're all way better for the lower range than the PT-48), I haven't had an issue. But I think I'm going to keep the 48 for the 12J.

The problem is, I was going through some stuff on the 12J/PT-48 yesterday, and the spot on my upper lip hurts again. So it's definitely that mouthpiece.

Should I replate this piece, or buy a replacement? Warburton is close enough that it could just be a day trip for me.

Also, is there anything wrong with gold plating the Sellmansberger rim, @bloke? Or is that just overkill on stainless? I'm wondering, though, if gold plating it will take away some of the grip, too. I would rather the rim be less "grabby."

[Doc]

So, while I'm trying out the new pieces (they're all way better for the lower range than the PT-48), I haven't had an issue. But I think I'm going to keep the 48 for the 12J.

The problem is, I was going through some stuff on the 12J/PT-48 yesterday, and the spot on my upper lip hurts again. So it's definitely that mouthpiece.

Should I replate this piece, or buy a replacement? Warburton is close enough that it could just be a day trip for me.

Also, is there anything wrong with gold plating the Sellmansberger rim, @bloke? Or is that just overkill on stainless? I'm wondering, though, if gold plating it will take away some of the grip, too. I would rather the rim be less "grabby."

Gold plate isn’t that grabby. I personally like the gold-kote Sellmansberger rim. Not too slick, not too grabby

[Yadent]

Had the same issue. Went to SS mouthpieces and gold plated rimed MPs. Those helped. Finally went to see a dermatologist who diagnosed actinic keratosis, sun damage from my surfing days. The Doc did a ‘deep freeze’ procedure which has helped tremendously. Still having some irritation with longer practice sessions but nothing like before. May need another ‘treatment’ for full resolution.

[JESimmons]

I had trouble with the SS mouthpiece, too. I don’t know the composition of the blokepiece, but there’s nickel in most SS. I switched to a lexan rim a year ago and have had no trouble. I have lexan rims on my trombone mouthpieces, too. I’ve learned to like the grippiness.

[BopEuph]

Gold plate isn’t that grabby.

I mean I'd like something more slippery. Part of my trouble with low range was that a perfectly centered embouchure wasn't working. Turns out I need to shift to get down past low D. I have a pretty large overbite, and guess that's the issue.

So I'm thinking the slipperier the better.

[bloke]

We offer a titanium coating over the stainless steel on rims as an option.
That stuff can actually be applied in quite a few colors, but a color that looks just like gold plating and another color that looks like gun blue (black) are the two that we’ve used.
The titanium coating that looks like gold plating is so popular that I tend to go ahead and coat most of the rims that I have produced with that stuff, these days...and yes, I do have to charge for that.
Using it myself on more than half of my rims, it seems to be something that will outlast my lifetime, and stays very very smooth… Sort of like “forever-new gold plating“. A plus is that it really looks stunning.
As few people who are allergic to stainless steel, even fewer are allergic to titanium, but yes: Lexan is the failsafe, and also great for cold weather.
The strength of component mouthpieces (particularly when sets of thoughtful and wide choices are offered) is that when someone likes the sound that a cup produces, they can then adjust the resistance with the shank – which contains the throat and backbore, and they can also choose how much of their lips vibrate inside the mouthpiece and the shape of the contour of the rim itself. With all one-piece mouthpieces, all of these different aspects are one choice/take it or leave it. Finally, with stainless steel rims – whether or not someone needs them coated with titanium due to an allergy, they don’t end up getting all scratched up simply by setting them down on something like a wooden table (or even on a piece of paper or a piece of cloth), which happens immediately with silver plated or gold plated brass rims - as silver, gold, and brass are so soft and malleable.
———
Please do NOT interpret this postscript as dismissing people‘s allergies. Quite a few people have allergies to quite a few different things. My own son has a pretty bad nickel allergy, and I wish he wasn’t so stubborn as to continue to allow nickel plated clothing accessories to touch his body. In the past, I used to think I was allergic to silver plating, etc. (I had little blisters all the time.) I finally discovered/realized that I was practicing for too much time with no breaks, and applying to much pressure to the mouthpiece. Repeating what I said at the beginning of this little postscript, I realize that many do have allergies, and I’m thankful that I do not. The only purpose of this postscript is if it happens to help anyone like me - as I was spending too much time playing in one session and was pressing too hard.

[BopEuph]

Just an added comment...

As @bloke points out gold and silver are quite malleable. I’ve had some gold plated mouthpieces in the past, but a combination of hair scruff, setting the mouthpiece down randomly, and whatever else would lead to the gold scratching up. Not terrible scratches, just enough to make the slick feel go away.

The titanium vapor deposit on stainless or whatever this magic be is a very similar feel to gold with fantastic durability.

However, I recognize that not everyone likes this level of slickness and prefer the mouthpiece have a little grip. Silver and plastic are superior there.

[BopEuph]

This is great information! @Bloke, you'll probably be getting a call from me very soon. I do intend to spend a week on the Warburton TG-1, but I think the Sellmansberger piece is going to be very hard to beat.

What about with the PT-48? It's pretty worn in; and it's a high probability that my skin issues is a brass sensitivity rather than a silver one. Do I replate it? Replace it? Is it sensible/cost effective to try the titanium plate? Maybe a smaller mouthpiece for the 12J? I'm kinda sorta using it as a bass tuba at the moment, and play a lot in the upper range with it.

[bloke]

I'm not responding to BobEuph in this post...Feel free to contact me and chat as you've done before...
===================

It occurred to me that someone might ask,

"Why not titanium-coat brass rims?"

In my experience, coating a really soft material with a really hard one doesn't work out very well.

Think of those "axial flow" trombone F-attachment valves, which are made of aluminum.
They are often titanium-coated, to prevent corrosion...but (often, within a very few years) the titanium coating fails.
I suspect that constant rubbing causes the hard coating to disengage from the soft base metal...
This is an extreme example, but think of "applying a super-tough polyurethane coating to some dried hard clay soil".
========================================
...In my house, the flooring is VERY wide (stunning) Vermont pine planks...but those pine planks are VERY soft, and scratch WAY too easily.
My plan is to sand down the floor and apply a product called "Gym Seal" (a super-tough gymnasium floor finish), but my concern - regarding durability - is precisely the type of concern expressed just above.

[KingTuba1241X]

well if it's not a friction injury, you might have found out you're allergic to the metal in your mouthpiece. I only found out I was allergic to silver because of a little spot on one lip that was always sore. Gold, no problem, Kelly, no problem, silver, there it is again. Quick fix is clear nail polish on the rim.

How are you with Stainless? I am golden with them. As long as someone hasn't ever used polish on them which doesn't give me any "skin" issue, but more a dull headache and heart palpitations.

[bloke]

a dull headache and heart palpitations.

a humble suggestion: (from a non-medical-professional layman)

Consider testing the mouthpiece (for these possible side effects, as well as others) with the "news" turned off.

[KingTuba1241X]

a dull headache and heart palpitations.

a humble suggestion: (from a non-medical-professional layman)

Consider testing the mouthpiece (for these possible side effects, as well as others) with the "news" turned off.

Yes, my mistake..all the allergies went away immediately. For me though, it's really just the polish. Dave's method on the C4LA rim I had (diamond cleaner polish he said) made my lips actually tingle and burn as well as the headache. Giddings' polish method causes less impact in this regard. People think I'm crazy for noticing this, but it's actually true that I have a strange and sensitive immune system and why the aversion to those unknown needles everyone is jabbing into their arms lately.(and lucky it's not necessarily the metal composition of the mouthpiece itself).

[Dan Tuba]

Lexan/polycarbonate is the only thing that works for me 100% of the time. Occasionally, I can get by with titanium, or a really pure silver plating/gold plating. However, they all cause a reaction after playing on them for more than a few days. I have also tried the H-kote from Houser, doesn't work...he couldn't believe it... wanted proof, lol My allergist/dermatologist confirmed

It's a really strange problem, especially when most people don't have issues like this. However, thanks to lexan/polycarbonate rims, or mouthpieces, people with this problem can continue to enjoy playing brass instruments

As far as excessive pressure causing swelling and bruising of the tissue around the mouth, that certainly might appear to be an allergy. However, I could tell definitely tell the difference when this first started happening to me.

After many years of working with a lot of brass players, I think excessive pressure is a problem. However, I actually think that more people are having reactions, some rather mild, and they don't know it. Your lips shouldn't turn cherry red after playing 2 hours a day for a few days. You shouldn't have what appears to be a permanent "red" ring around your lips, where the rim sits. Sure, that could be from excessive pressure, but could also be from a reaction of some sort, whether allergic, or chemical (acidity of the mouth, skin). It also should not take you 1 or 2 hours to get "warmed" up for the day. If you notice that your warm up is taking longer and longer after heavy playing, and you feel a mild chapping of your lips, skin around the mouth, and haven't been playing outside, this could be early warning signs of an allergy or reaction of some kind. It could also be from too much pressure.

Why are allergic and chemical reactions happening? Could be diet(acid reflux), could be the quality of materials, etc. Definitely, a lot of potential causes.

[BopEuph]

This is good info.

As stupid as it sounds, I actually took a good look at the rim today for the first time. It's more ragged out than I thought:



This is the hell that it causes. Hiding it so you're not forced to look at my nose if you don't care to. Even went easy there when shaving this morning:

Spoiler

I'm guessing this is a cut-and-dry brass sensitivity issue.

[Mary Ann]

Why are allergic and chemical reactions happening? Could be diet(acid reflux), could be the quality of materials, etc. Definitely, a lot of potential causes.

As usual I have opinions on this.....our world is SO full of non-tested chemicals, especially chemicals not tested in combination with each other, and at this point in time there are still many who had poisonous metal put in their teeth. That accumulates in your body (we had leaded gasoline for a long time too....) and some bodies are not very good at getting rid of it. So the load you are carrying gets greater and greater as the years go by, and "suddenly" you reach a tipping point where your body says "ENOUGH!" and starts reacting to things it never did before. The only solution I know of is to get as much crap back out of your body as you can, using whatever means you can think of (one of which is to go "totally pure" in everything you are in control of ingesting) and hope for the best. Our great-grandparents didn't have these problems because their world was simply not polluted to the extent ours is, nor did they have things injected into them for "health" reasons and I won't continue on about THAT.

[Dan Tuba]

Why are allergic and chemical reactions happening? Could be diet(acid reflux), could be the quality of materials, etc. Definitely, a lot of potential causes.

As usual I have opinions on this.....our world is SO full of non-tested chemicals, especially chemicals not tested in combination with each other, and at this point in time there are still many who had poisonous metal put in their teeth. That accumulates in your body (we had leaded gasoline for a long time too....) and some bodies are not very good at getting rid of it. So the load you are carrying gets greater and greater as the years go by, and "suddenly" you reach a tipping point where your body says "ENOUGH!" and starts reacting to things it never did before. The only solution I know of is to get as much crap back out of your body as you can, using whatever means you can think of (one of which is to go "totally pure" in everything you are in control of ingesting) and hope for the best. Our great-grandparents didn't have these problems because their world was simply not polluted to the extent ours is, nor did they have things injected into them for "health" reasons and I won't continue on about THAT.

Mary Ann, I think that you might be right about this.

[Three Valves]

My Grandparents were all natural and all dead by 80!!

[Dan Tuba]

My Grandparents were all natural and all dead by 80!!

Yeah, my grandparents too

I don't think that the possible food, water, etc contamination that we are exposed to necessarily decreases our lifespan, although, in some people that is the case. I have watched a lot of people die very early in life from cancer, diabetes, etc. Overall, life expectancy has actually increased, depending on how you look at it... but not by much. However, I think that it's totally possible that the exposure to so many toxins contributes to the quality of our lifespan. Being good stewards of what is/was given to us will help us in many ways.

But yeah, it's appointed once for all men(women) to die, then the judgement. We will not escape either of these, in my opinion.

[Dan Tuba]

This is good info.

As stupid as it sounds, I actually took a good look at the rim today for the first time. It's more ragged out than I thought:



This is the hell that it causes. Hiding it so you're not forced to look at my nose if you don't care to. Even went easy there when shaving this morning:

Spoiler

I'm guessing this is a cut-and-dry brass sensitivity issue.

Having the brass exposed like it is on your mouthpiece can certainly cause an allergic reaction. Brass is/can be toxic, and highly allergenic for some people.

I also think that the roughness of the surface area on your mouthpiece probably caused some significant abrasions on your nose/skin... wherever it makes contact with your skin.

Personally, I would not use a mouthpiece in that kind of condition unless that I didn't have a choice.

[BopEuph]

Personally, I would not use a mouthpiece in that kind of condition unless that I didn't have a choice.

Yeah, a friend said repairs on that would entail a shaving of the rim, anyway. Maybe I should shop for a new piece for the Conn, too...or maybe one of the ones that don't work for the Kanstul that I got will pair with the Conn just as well.