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Three Valves wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:13 pm

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 3:01 pm701675

Looks like 1957

Obligatory obscure cinematic reference:

"Hollow body ... 1957, a good year!"

(a shade under a minute into the following clip, but not sure setting start point works in embedded links... also audio out of sync for me, but hey, the Red Elvises!)



Let me know if you're goin' to Lost Vegas...

For 1957 (halfway through production) I was channeling more George Costanza...

"...right in that meaty part of the curve..."

It’s the shoebox Chevy of the 20Js...

This is the best 20J I have never played.

cjk wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:54 am This is the best 20J I have never played.

Doesn't have to be that way... Come on up.

It's a couple of days away from June, and it's 55° with not a cloud in the sky.

Three Valves wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 6:19 pm It’s the shoebox Chevy of the 20Js...

..and made of the same amount of metal!!

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 1:43 pm

cjk wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:54 am This is the best 20J I have never played.

Doesn't have to be that way... Come on up.

It's a couple of days away from June, and it's 55° with not a cloud in the sky.

55 degrees is cold!! I might have to wear pants!

Polka Tuba!! Have fun with that great horn!

Spent a LOT of time on this tuba this weekend. Like, as much playing as I've done in a year, I did this weekend.

A few unorganized thoughts:
* Still think it's very easy to play and make it sound nice. Takes a minute to remember I need to blow the air a little different than the Alex, and then I'm good.
* Reminds me so much of playing sousaphone in college (which was also the last time I played BBb)
* The valves are great, and show very little wear on them. For a tuba that's had this many dents and this much use... The valves are awesome and in great shape. Short action is nice!
* Intonation is very workable, and not much of a problem. It's not perfect and nobody expected it to be. But it's perfectly serviceable.
* HEAVY!
* Part of the heaviness is the recording bell making it so unbalanced. Takes actual effort to hold it up, as opposed to being a lazy tuba player with the horn sitting in my lap. REALLY want to try this with an upright bell. I "get" recording bells, but I've never particularly wanted one. And if I only want an upright bell, why not shed a few pounds and pick a tuba with a fixed upright bell (part of the problem with my old Marzan)

I doubt it's worth it to spend $ on un-denting the horn, nor is it worth too much time or effort to delacquer and shine it. But I'll do a little more to try and make it a little less splotchy. We'll see. For now, it's fun. :)

Any photos out there of a NEW or fully restored 2xJ? These must've really been something to look at when new and shiny!

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 8:03 pm * Intonation is very workable, and not much of a problem. It's not perfect and nobody expected it to be. But it's perfectly serviceable.

Curious about the F, right below the staff, which as you may know is commonly cited as an extreme intonation problem. Though we've heard from other very knowledgeable observers that the 2nJ series can play in tune just fine. Not every one of them - my purpose is not to discount anyone's experience, just proposing that it apparently isn't built into the tuba in such a way as to make every one of them suffer equally from this problem.

As we would guess, right? from the fact that it's probably the most successful BAT ever. I mean, it obviously hasn't made much inroads on the orchestra brass section scene, but in terms of numbers of them shipped out of the factory over its lifetime ... could any other big tuba come anywhere close?

So anyway ... things it isn't:

• the proportions of the bows, since these will be fairly consistent
• the valves, ditto
• have to use a bit, since Bort doesn't have one

I'm the last person who is going to pull out a tuner and tell you how many cents flat or sharp something is. And certainly not going to rattle off intonation tendencies of the nth partial...

For me, it's pretty simple to hear what's in/out of tune, and then adjust what you can to make it better, if needed. I'm not a slide puller, so I use alternate fingerings or lip things up/down. I've tried some really awful tubas before... Big struggle to play in tune. This 20J is NOT that. It's not perfect, but frankly, I think that's as much me 1) being really out of playing shape and 2) being used to playing a very different rotary tuba. Give this the right air, and there's no issue that I can't deal with. It's just fine!

The harder things for me than intonation are 1) control when playing softly (24" bell in front of my face... That seems like a tough thing to achieve until I get in shape again) and 2) clean articulations (again, the front bell is not my friend, as every bit of everything is hugely amplified and directed. Not at all used to that.

My old Bach 18 megatone from college works really well on this, as it did on my Conn sousaphone in college. But the Thein that I play on my Alex sounds even better... Likely because I've used that mouthpiece nearly exclusively for the last several years, and it's what I know best. It's the rare case, where the mouthpiece cost more than the tuba, so that makes me a little nervous.

@donn , why do you think they sold so many of these? School band programs? They are TANKS and take a beating and just keep going. But ouch, I'm a grown man and this thing is no fun to carry. It's far heavier than I think it will be... But it's also not as huge to hold as I think it will be.

My son always wants to play it, so I sit the bow on the floor and hold it up, and he walks up to it to play. Works well since he can reach the valves and blow at the same time... And for 5 years old, he's pretty good at it!

Ramble ramble ramble... Was fun to play the tuba this weekend.

According to this catalog picture, a sousaphone bit wasn't part of the design...

https://simonettitubacollection.files.w ... 46-20j.jpg <-- larger image

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 11:28 pm @donn , why do you think they sold so many of these? School band programs? They are TANKS and take a beating and just keep going. But ouch, I'm a grown man and this thing is no fun to carry. It's far heavier than I think it will be... But it's also not as huge to hold as I think it will be.

My Holton 109 is a burden. I think it would be much less of a strain if it weren't bell front. In a way it's actually the nearest competition to the 20J - big bell front tuba with short stroke valves. But with front valves. (Some will tell you they're more robust, but it didn't take long before an unknown impact bent my 3rd valve stem over, requiring a costly replacement.) I'm sure that otherwise it's at least as much of a tank. I don't know Martins, but never heard anything about them being fragile.

Conn's success with the 20J couldn't just be on musical merit, because the Holtons (105, 109 etc.) and Martins and probably others I'm forgetting ... yeah, was there a Yorb or something back in the day? are fine sounding instruments, and band instrument marketing notoriously involves a lot of stuff that has nothing to do with how good the instrument is. But I'm just saying, they couldn't have pulled that off year after year for I guess half a century, with a duff horn. And in general I'm reluctant to suppose that an instrument manufacturer would even put a seriously defective design into factory production, at least past the first run. So anyway, I'm thinking there's some defect that commonly crops up and makes that F flat.

I really enjoy my Conn 24/25J tubas. I own two, one completely restored/lacquered, the other, mechanically restored, but left in raw brass. Between the two, I have three bells, that I use for different playing situations. I have used Conn 2XJ tubas for much of my military career(I have owned several over the years), and they have always served me well. Here's a playlist of some of my practice sessions and experimentation with learning arranging/recording multiple tuba tracks. Most are with one of my Conn 24/25J tubas.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmqr ... tfncGEwgtA

Another 20j just showed up on FB for the same $500... it’s in Round Rock TX.

It's a tough time to be selling a 2xj tuba...

LargeTuba wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 8:00 pm It's a tough time to be selling a 2xj tuba...

Is it? The one I bought sold only took the guy a few days to sell.

Good news...

I've confirmed, this a Conn.

Also this:



Nothing gorgeous, but way better than the long streaky half lacquer that was there. I don't think it's "pretty" as much as it is "relieving".

Not a lot of fun, but I'll get through it. This is a one-time job, so that sort of helps knowing that...

Rub, rub here
Rub, rub there
Whether you're tin or bronze
That's how we keep you in repair
In the merry old land of Oz