Conquering the Pig

[Worth]

Boroscopy complete without any complaints on the part of the patient. No obstructions and valves aligned perfectly, just as the markings line up. I just have the feeling this thing takes more finesse and or air. Understanding now what those who have come before me have overcome

[matt g]

What mouthpieces have you tried with it?

[Worth]

What mouthpieces have you tried with it?

My complete (scaled down) arsenal to include Blokepiece Symphony and Imperial (with and without spacer), Dillon Roylance, Wick 3L, and Kellyberg. They all yield a similar result. Not a problem I have encountered before so it is somewhat of a mystery

[LeMark]

hate to say it, but you may have a dog. Have you had other people play it to see if it acts the same for them?

[Worth]

hate to say it, but you may have a dog. Have you had other people play it to see if it acts the same for them?

Thanks Mark, that is my next step although hoping not. I am realistic though and do understand. If so, quite an expensive lesson to learn. Play testing is just not always possible. If that turns out to be the case, the idea of reselling it on this forum is certainly DOA after all this. I'll have someone I trust play it next weekend. Appreciate all the input

[bloke]

borescope time...or "have someone else play it" time

St. Pete's always make me think of "if a pig were a B-flat tuba".

[matt g]

What mouthpieces have you tried with it?

My complete (scaled down) arsenal to include Blokepiece Symphony and Imperial (with and without spacer), Dillon Roylance, Wick 3L, and Kellyberg. They all yield a similar result. Not a problem I have encountered before so it is somewhat of a mystery

This might be a rare occasion where a large throat (circa 9mm) might help.

[Worth]

What mouthpieces have you tried with it?

My complete (scaled down) arsenal to include Blokepiece Symphony and Imperial (with and without spacer), Dillon Roylance, Wick 3L, and Kellyberg. They all yield a similar result. Not a problem I have encountered before so it is somewhat of a mystery

This might be a rare occasion where a large throat (circa 9mm) might help.

Thank you so much for this advice. This morning I drilled out my first throat. A silver plated brass Kellyberg Kaiser shank which I had bought (shank size) in error and had already custom modified it to fit the receiver perfectly. I read some prior posts so I got out a 9-9.25 drill bit in my Vice grips and manually worked the drill bit in from the backbore end slowly and cautiously. I got it about 5mm from the cup side when it just wouldn't go anymore, so I completed the work from the cup side in the same manner without scratching the inside of the cup. I can now focus these upper notes without any break up whatsoever. Wow! Seems with this larger throat I can also play the lower Eb 134 instead of 1234, with 1234 working well for the D. Still more familiarization to do with pulls, etc, down there. This was a very big help and I can't thank you enough.

[matt g]

@Worth, awesome that this worked out so well!

My (somewhat edumacated) guess was that the throat needed to match the rate of taper (or lack thereof) in the piggy plus the notion that a wider throat is more about giving some “width” to the intonation slots more than it is about putting more air through the horn.

[bloke]

otoh...

A factor could be this:

A lack of resistance in the instrument is causing you to have to exert more energy to do what you can normally do easily...

...so maybe (??) a SMALLER-than-normal throat and exit bore would help.

As an experiment (not necessarily a "eureka" mouthpiece) you might buy one of those super-cheap Chinese Bach-looking mouthpieces off eBay.
They feature very small throat diameters.

[Worth]

Two opposing approaches, each I am sure equally worthy. For me at this point, considering how nicely opening up the MP throat has affected the sound and response I'm going to stick with this approach. The middle of the staff open C even seems less sharp, or is that the honeymoon talking lol
Thanks to all

[Ace]

Years ago, Florida tubist Jay Bertolet made a few posts about his modified Cerveny 601. One of the mods was a stick-on-the-main. At this point, I suppose it is impossible to get those archives. My memory tells me that he felt the horn absolutely needed a stick to play in tune. But, over all, he liked the 601 very much.
I owned a 601 CC 4+1 and played it in orchestra for a few years. Had to lip just a few notes up to pitch.

Ace

[LeMark]

I believe this was Jay's cerveny. I've saved a bunch of cerveny pics for a long time

[Worth]

A lack of resistance in the instrument is causing you to have to exert more energy to do what you can normally do easily...

...so maybe (??) a SMALLER-than-normal throat and exit bore would help.

I keep learning and now understand this. I've gone back on TubeNet archives and educated myself on characteristics of very open free blowing horns with minimal resistance (the Piggy is a Kaiser bore at .835). I then took my mouthpiece (any piece) and buzzed the same problematic notes without part of a finger on the end offering resistance, and got the exact same result. Resistance is the issue, not the horn, as was my lack of knowledge regarding how to deal. Although a viable experiment to open up the throat of my mouthpiece, after the initial one day honeymoon and a good deal of playing yesterday the problem returned in spades. The Kellyberg was not a favorite of mine, so I chalk it up to a learning experience, especially regarding drilling out a throat. I now understand the delicate balance of mouthpiece resistance via a vis horn resistance. Now to find a good bowl in a Euro shank with the right throat and backbone characteristics to match this horn.

[matt g]

@Worth, sorry to hear the issue remains.

Interesting that things worked and then didn’t. Good news is that there is likely some solution out there.

Marcinkiewicz has some small-throated mouthpieces in the “N” and “W” series, but I think they are all American shank. Maybe there is something in the Tucci lineup?

[Worth]

RT had an excellent post on Tubenet re this exact subject. I'll send him a PM here on TubaForum and see what he recommends from his line-up. Great idea, thank you!

[LeMark]

Here is here! I

[jonesbrass]

...which is why I tend to chuckle when I see those silly bell covers. I have even seen them on saxophones...talk about a complete lack of understanding regarding what’s actually occurring…

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[bloke]

Less resistance requires more effort…and I am not suggesting at all that the person who started the thread is not capable of additional effort, but I am suggesting that a change in tack is required, when the level of resistance changes.

Personally, I have moved down to the #0 throat/back-bore for all mouthpiece applications when using the (Sellmansberger) “Solo” cup, even though the instruments with which I use that cup would be said by most to already offer a great deal of resistance.