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^ How many tricks are you trying to do, anyway? :)

KingTuba1241X wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:47 pm

Doc wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:08 pm

rodgeman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:59 pm
Have you tried a Kaiser tuba? I would suggest that if you could.

If you were actually going to consider a Kaiser, that would open up possibilities. Here’s a model I have experience with:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2877

The only other suggestion would be a Mirafone 186 with a recording bell if you wanted to increase the sound.

IXNAY on the STHETICSAY!

Aren't kaisers air hogs though? Or, secondly...perhaps a 1 trick pony like the lap sousaphone?

Not necessarily for either, but those are fair questions. Joe’s Miraphone 190 BBb wouldn’t qualify as a 1 trick pony. A large 6/4 B&S 104 can do “big tuba” stuff without a lot of effort, has a very vibrant sound, and it does other things pretty easily.

Is it an air hog? I’m not the guy to ask, as I like large bore rotary tubas. They don’t play like a small/med bore King, and they aren’t supposed to. I just feed them the air they need with whatever efficiency is required. I guess it’s an unconscious thing for me, so I don’t have the air hog sensation??? But I do realize this is a thing for some players. I thought my 104 was pretty easy to play, but testing, of course, is believing.

There are various options from the various EU manufacturers that would likely work although I’ve no personal experience with any of them save for a toot here and there. I’ve heard good things about the Mira 289, for example, and it would be on my short list were I you. The Chinese models already mentioned are options, too. If you’re under significant price constraints (<= $5K) you’ll need to watch the used market either way. Mack Brass has the Zo 5000 in your price range that meets your general needs except it’s a piston horn. If you’re stuck on having a tightly wrapped rotary horn, the pool of candidates is smaller.

Honestly, the Landress 101, the B&S 104 here or the demo 379bb at Tuba Exchange may be your best bets. Every other horn I’ve seen recently that fits your bill is more expensive.

hrender wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:43 pm There are various options from the various EU manufacturers that would likely work although I’ve no personal experience with any of them save for a toot here and there. I’ve heard good things about the Mira 289, for example, and it would be on my short list were I you. The Chinese models already mentioned are options, too. If you’re under significant price constraints (<= $5K) you’ll need to watch the used market either way. Mack Brass has the Zo 5000 in your price range that meets your general needs except it’s a piston horn. If you’re stuck on having a tightly wrapped horn, the pool of candidates is even smaller.

Honestly, the Landress 101, the B&S 104 here or the demo 379bb at Tuba Exchange may be your best bets. Every other horn I’ve seen recently that fits your bill is more expensive.

The Kaiser is cool as heck, but I gotta buy a plane ticket to Berlin to get it.

BBC has the big HB 193, but it’s more expensive. Also the rotary King, now that I think of it.

hrender wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:55 pm BBC has the big HB 193, but it’s more expensive. Also the rotary King, now that I think of it.

How do those rotary Kings play...always wondered. They are kind of bigger bore..but it may not matter.

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KingTuba1241X wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:54 pm

hrender wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:43 pm There are various options from the various EU manufacturers that would likely work although I’ve no personal experience with any of them save for a toot here and there. I’ve heard good things about the Mira 289, for example, and it would be on my short list were I you. The Chinese models already mentioned are options, too. If you’re under significant price constraints (<= $5K) you’ll need to watch the used market either way. Mack Brass has the Zo 5000 in your price range that meets your general needs except it’s a piston horn. If you’re stuck on having a tightly wrapped horn, the pool of candidates is even smaller.

Honestly, the Landress 101, the B&S 104 here or the demo 379bb at Tuba Exchange may be your best bets. Every other horn I’ve seen recently that fits your bill is more expensive.

The Kaiser is cool as heck, but I gotta buy a plane ticket to Berlin to get it.

Only if you want to test it prior to purchase. Louis will ship. I had my Symphonie from him in less than a month.

If budget weren’t an issue, I might suggest a Fafner or Rudy 5/4 BBb.

KingTuba1241X wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:29 pm

hrender wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:55 pm BBC has the big HB 193, but it’s more expensive. Also the rotary King, now that I think of it.

How do those rotary Kings play...always wondered. They are kind of bigger bore..but it may not matter.

I have a rotary CC .689 bore that you can try if you’d like.

KingTuba1241X wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:29 pm

hrender wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:55 pm BBC has the big HB 193, but it’s more expensive. Also the rotary King, now that I think of it.

How do those rotary Kings play...always wondered. They are kind of bigger bore..but it may not matter.

Ed Firth and J.c. Sherman swear by them. Both are experienced pros. My 1240 is a .750 bore (oddball). I switched to it after playing a Gnagey CC (built from a King 1241 body) for some years, and it was an easy transition.

hrender wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:51 am

KingTuba1241X wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:29 pm

hrender wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:55 pm BBC has the big HB 193, but it’s more expensive. Also the rotary King, now that I think of it.

How do those rotary Kings play...always wondered. They are kind of bigger bore..but it may not matter.

Ed Firth and J.c. Sherman swear by them. Both are experienced pros. My 1240 is a .750 bore (oddball). I switched to it after playing a Gnagey CC (built from a King 1241 body) for some years, and it was an easy transition.

Yours would be a pre-1240 if it had that bore. Weren't they called symphony basses pre-ww2?

They've been 1240s for a long time. Mine is like the one on the right in the pic below. Apparently the .750 "large bore" was an option back in the day.

Edit: My valveset looks a bit more like that on the King Monster BBb in the lower pic. Notably, the loops on the 3rd valve slides are at the same height, while in the pic for the 1240 they're at different heights. Mine are at the same height. I don't know if some/all of the Monster BBb horns were .750, but the BBb rotary monsters were.

hrender wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:14 am They've been 1240s for a long time. Mine is like the one on the right in the pic below. Apparently the .750 "large bore" was an option back in the day.

I seem to remember them referring to them simply as King symphony basses as the ad says there (even though the model number was either 1235 or 1240). Since there was the one major lead pipe change post war and moving of the main tuning slide.

KingTuba1241X wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:46 pm What 4/4 or 5/4 size concert tuba out there be it Chinese, German, American, etc...plays easy and responsive like a King 2341 but has the Germanic design of a rotary horn with a direct, non diffuse ample projection rate? I know this description is open to MANY opinions just curious to see what you guys say. Or in simpler terms, is there a German style rotary tuba that's an easy blow like a small bore American tuba like a King, Reynolds or Conn model? Sorry for the Bloke style subject line..but his threads seem to get attention that way.

My Bessophone does that. See PM.