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I emailed Lidl, and they replied promptly -- they said that all of their BBb tubas are made as CC tubas (their words, not mine). And that they have been seeking options for a distributor in the US, but Covid has caused a number of delays on that front. Instruments can be ordered directly through them, or though a dealer they mentioned that we all know (but I'm not sure if that person wants me spreading that info just yet).

I'm wondering if the BBb tubas made as CC is similar to the way in which Alexander shows the 163 model on their website, where BBb is listed, but it's available in BBb or CC.
https://gebr-alexander.de/en/portfolio- ... model-163/

A few weeks ago, I was feeling smug/cocky, because I was thinking (and thinking about all of the C-tuba snoots, at the same time) I was about to be paid over $70/note to play a B-flat tuba, and it wasn’t even a “6/4” nor “large bore”…not even silver…
… but my per note average got all screwed up by the last minute addition of Ukrainian national anthem.

bloke “yeah… I have a C tuba, and it’s a good one. I use it quite a bit… but often it’s not the best thing to bring to a gig.”

DonO. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 9:19 am bloke-I’ve often wondered the same thing. When did the whole CC thing start? Who was the first player of note to start using a CC? I would assume others started wanting to emulate him, whoever he was. For myself, I never saw the need to change from BBb. My college teacher was not a tuba specialist (trombone guy who taught all the brass players), thus he had no problem with letting me continue to play BBb. At the graduate level, my private teacher was a professional tuba player with a full time symphony position, but he was a relative rarity in the world of symphonic tuba players, as he played a BBb. So no problem for me there either. I was never subjected to the “BBb Inferiority Complex”. There is, at least in America, a collegiate/professional thing going on that has the subliminal message “You’ll never be taken seriously unless you play CC.”

DonO. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 9:19 am Who was the first player of note to start using a CC?

This question, in particular, has an easy answer. It’s August Helleberg, specifically in the USA.

matt g wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:33 pm

DonO. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 9:19 am Who was the first player of note to start using a CC?

This question, in particular, has an easy answer. It’s August Helleberg, specifically in the USA.

I don’t play CC tubas, but I love Helleberg mouthpieces!

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I had a chance to visit the Lidl factory about 5-6 years ago, when it was still located in downtown Brno, and tried out a few tubas. I second Tofu's opinion on them, very well made instruments, and I regret not having bought one, at least as an investment. Every once in a while those older models ( made in Brno) pop up for sale used in CZ or Austria. Mr. Hlavaty is very active and working hard to keep the quality high and progress despite the difficult times that most any business is facing here in Europe lately.

Several posts back I asked the naive question about why CC tubas are the norm in the USA. I was curious so I did a little further research. I discovered this topic had already been talked to death on the “other forum”. Wow! LOTS of discussion to sift through there. I apologize for asking a naive question without doing research first. I had known that Cerveny is credited with making the first rotary valve contrabass tuba, but didn’t know he made it in BBb and CC. Didn’t know that Wagner got involved and preferred the sound of the CC and scored for it. Didn’t know
August Helleberg played a CC, and that had a huge impact among American tuba players. Didn’t know that a great deal of the CC thing was due to American tuba players wanting to emulate Arnold Jacobs. I learned a lot! Still happy playing BBb though. Maybe ignorance is bliss. Somehow throughout my so called “career” I avoided the CC “thing”.

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:59 pm ..... “yeah… I have a C tuba, and it’s a good one. I use it quite a bit… but often it’s not the best thing to bring to a gig.”

The Thor?

Apparently I never posted or competed my thought.

Lee Stofer is the person to contact in the US about these tubas. Not a formal dealer from what I understand, but he and they have talked in the recent past. The reply I got from Lidl said that in part, establishing dealers was delayed because of Musikmesse being cancelled the last 2 years. Anyway, that's all I know.

Stojí o polovinu méně!

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The merger of Lidl/Stoelzel/Arnolds and Sons happened not long before COVID popped up, as I understood.
Amati Kraslice "restarted"(after a chaotic period of bankruptcy, takeovers, etc.) in 2021.
Besides all difficulties that normally accompany such mergers, restarts, takeovers and the like, all producers of instruments and parts in the so-called (Musik-Winkel = music corner) in the border regions of Czechia/Germany as well as widely over Western Europe had a very hard time during COVID: a lot of them faced heavy falling off of sales, reduction of working hours, even dismissal, bankruptcy, takeover or closing. That is what we heard and read over and over. Perhaps against this background it is not surprising that the companies, we are talking about, still have to struggle for their survival and are looking for possibilities to increase their production (in numbers as well as in the variation of models) and are still on the look-out to expand their networks of distributors. For sure, they are aware of the enormous potential of the American market. So, as we may expect (and hope), they will be back there again rather soon. Otherwise, one never knows for sure in times of madness of war.......
Hubert

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The Lidl model.I would me most interested in would be 715. I'd also like to try that 696.

LeMark wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:21 pm Yes, I've seen that photo, what I'm saying is I've never seen one that wasn't just a photo on a Website.

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anz ... 58-74-7413

That's interesting. Does seem to be legit. So at least one has been sold, LOL

I think part of the confusion is for YEARS, the cerveny website has a photo of a CC piggy as the photo of the BBb. Meaning it had a vertical website. Obviously the production model does not

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:59 pm bloke “yeah… I have a C tuba, and it’s a good one. I use it quite a bit… but often it’s not the best thing to bring to a gig.”

So buy a 195P?

LeMark wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 3:21 pm That's interesting. Does seem to be legit. So at least one has been sold, LOL

Maybe I could have offered a tad more info.
It seems that this business (from Poland?) is one of a handful that sell this model and others under the name Cerveny.
Old stock? I’ve no idea but it seems logical that during this transition it’ll be a while before one see’s these same model’s on the market with Lidl stamped on the bell.

These manufacturers are facing challenges.

- Chinese instruments (ranging in quality from crap to equal-to-European quality)
- long term evidence showing that .5mm thick instruments end up get beat up pretty badly in schools
- finally (after several decades), the “Miraphone/rotary” band director craze beginning to fade
- Czech replacement parts never having been particularly easy to obtain in the US. Allied Supply (Tom Getzen) doesn’t carry any, and seemingly the one-or-two here-and-there importers/sellers have never been interested in stocking parts, either.
- For me personally, it’s difficult to think of one Czech-made iconic model to which players refer as being that’s a reference/ideal design/model. Admittedly, I read a lot of “piggy” talk, but I don’t read a lot of praise of “piggy“ intonation.
From time to time, I do see some “look what I got“ posts - where people have picked up B-flat or C 6/4 rotary models made in Czechoslovakia, but in the $2XXX used market, and I don’t recall anyone posting about purchasing a gleaming new one of these.

bloke “Is this a ‘just sayin’ post?”

It''s an interesting point/observation: Piggy intonation. "Cause that's really what could make it a game changer, right?

Cross referencing to another post about ideal tuba's for the ageing body: the Piggy has a lot going for it in this category. Compact, not top heavy, relativly light and an easy player.

I remember twice playing one of their Opera models (Arion sized bore) and both times it got my attention in a good way. Whenever I pick up an instrument, forget that I'm "checking it out", and start playing and having fun with it: that's usually a good sign for me.

Assuming that the Arion intonation is as good as with the JP knock off that I sell, it’s a winner.
Though compact, this model is not a “piggy“… But you know this.