TubaForum.net

Schenkelaars Eb, Cerveny BBb & Lignatone BBb

Schlitzz wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:57 pm Keep in mind, and in your prayers, our fellow brethren that have viola playing spouses under their roofs. Somebody has to do it.

Oh dear. What would you do with a tuba player who also plays the viola? Hmmmm? Now I'm going to have to put the viola in my picture. Late to this thread but I'll get here with an update to this post after I get them all out of their cases and lined up on the floor. HA.
=========== L to R:
Back row: Sterling euph, Mfone 183, Mphone 283, Mfone 184
Front row: Schmid horn, viola, cornet, cat.

If anyone would like a determined, cranky, needy, obnoxious but sweet Calico, this one is available. She does not like closed doors and yowls in the middle of the night at the door behind which these are stored. And yowls during the day at twilight, dusk, and dawn, every time it occurs to her that this door is shut.

Oh, and of course since all three M-ph/Fones were out, I just had to give a comparative toot on all of them: verdict -- the 183 is still very nice, no objections at ALL. The 184 is I would guess a typical 184, again no objections; and they have a similar sound. The 283, very surprisingly because I had not played it side by side with the others, is considerably more "barky" and "bright" than either of the other two. Yes, noticeably easier to play, but definitely not as mellow no matter which cup I use. Fascinating. If I needed a mellow sound, I actually might choose one of the others. To cut through a big wall of sound, the Star.

It didn't occur to me that it was this many, and nor that I used all of them as much as I actually do.

I have other stuff (mostly polka band gig or oddball gig stuff) such as a valve trombone, a flugabone (basically, a valve trombone - for when there's no room for a valve trombone on the bandstand), and a Yamaha 4+1 model 321 euphonium (for when I encounter so-called "tenor tuba" parts, whereby the part soars up into the somewhat-stratosphere). I think the last of the ($50 broken, but bloke-fixed) Jinbao "pocket" trumpets disappeared to grandchildren...but there are plenty of other trumpets in the barn, so...

As I'm typing, I've decided to label the picture...THOUGH I TALK ABOUT ALL THIS JUNK ALL THE DAMN TIME , here...


See? No C, ¿Si?


more important than all of the seussaphones:

Kontrabasstuba wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:21 am

I like my Cimbasso for Oom-pah music

Oh, very nice! Great sound you get on that thing!

Technically, aren't those oompa-loompas?

bone-a-phone wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 2:44 pm

Kontrabasstuba wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:21 am

I like my Cimbasso for Oom-pah music

Oh, very nice! Great sound you get on that thing!

THANK YOU. It was a real fun project

Is the sheet music available for that?

bloke wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 2:00 pmLately, I've decided that I like the bell in this more down position, as it lines up better with the other bells in the trombone section.

I plan to build my own cimbasso in F (perhaps this summer) and I had intended to set the bell on the dingus so that it sits on my shoulder in the same position as the other "boners". I like the cut of your jib, sir.

I also think I may make it more in the old valve trombone layout. The cimbasso layout is a little bit of a visual distraction* for some of the old boy "Co-cola" drinking crowd here in "Mi'sippi"…

____________
* I borrowed one for the Verdi Requiem many years ago and liked it a lot, but did not see enough potential for using it at that time to justify buying one. (I had the funds then, so I wish I had bought it. It was a Kalison in F, and it played very well.) Anyway, I *still* get questions about it from patrons. "Wut duh hail wuz dat sumbitchin thang you wuz blowing on durin dat dair 'death mass' you boiz done at the Cath'lik choich? Funneh-looking thang, but ah shore lahked er."

Go for it. I think a lot of the very old horizontal valve contrabass trombone instruments ended up being supported by a piece of wood, due to the athleticism involved in playing them, but you might be able to come up with something different.

A whole bunch of them were only about .560-in bore, which made them lighter overall... a lot lighter, but they were still heavy out there in the front. I had one a while ago. I'm glad that mine is neither .560 bore nor .728. Both ends of the spectrum don't seem to work out very well, at least not for me.

I mostly play mine in a greater metro area of probably less than 150,000 people. I think by now they've gotten used to it, and it certainly never bothered anybody. I've had a few people - who are observant/curious - to ask what it is. A short answer that seems to be a good answer that people accept is that "it's a thing that plays a lot like a tuba and sounds more like a trombone, for when I want to sound more like a trombone".
The individuals who seem to like it the most are current or former tuba players.

If you really want piston valves, you might try to find an Olds O-99-4 set that can be rebuilt. You've read me talking about how stupid good mind plays - over and over, but I bet an even slightly smaller bore wouldn't hurt anything.

One last thing you might consider about the horizontal design is that it could get hard on your shoulders with your hands out there all the time. That stuff is okay for 18-year-olds in marching band and drum corps, but I don't think I would like having my shoulders and arms out there for a full pops concert or a full big band concert.

bloke wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 8:43 am Go for it. I think a lot of the very old horizontal valve contrabass trombone instruments ended up being supported by a piece of wood, due to the athleticism involved in playing them, but you might be able to come up with something different.

A whole bunch of them were only about .560-in bore, which made them lighter overall... a lot lighter, but they were still heavy out there in the front. I had one a while ago. I'm glad that mine is neither .560 bore nor .728. Both ends of the spectrum don't seem to work out very well, at least not for me.

I mostly play mine in a greater metro area of probably less than 150,000 people. I think by now they've gotten used to it, and it certainly never bothered anybody. I've had a few people - who are observant/curious - to ask what it is. A short answer that seems to be a good answer that people accept is that "it's a thing that plays a lot like a tuba and sounds more like a trombone, for when I want to sound more like a trombone".
The individuals who seem to like it the most are current or former tuba players.

If you really want piston valves, you might try to find an Olds O-99-4 set that can be rebuilt. You've read me talking about how stupid good mind plays - over and over, but I bet an even slightly smaller bore wouldn't hurt anything.

One last thing you might consider about the horizontal design is that it could get hard on your shoulders with your hands out there all the time. That stuff is okay for 18-year-olds in marching band and drum corps, but I don't think I would like having my shoulders and arms out there for a full pops concert or a full big band concert.

Cerveny still makes a small bore 'straight' F valved bass. One with a compact body like some valve trombones have would be interesting. .562 doesn't really work that well in my Eb thing but I think a different mp will make a big difference. A straight, compact wrap, 3 valve Eb with a bigger bore would make a fun rock band type horn and could play everything a bari sax can and most of what bass trombone actually plays without getting too heavy or being a pain to play. Hell, along those lines an Eb contrabass trumpet could do the same. I really regret selling my F.

Here we be...

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the elephant wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 8:04 am

bloke wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 2:00 pmLately, I've decided that I like the bell in this more down position, as it lines up better with the other bells in the trombone section.

I plan to build my own cimbasso in F (perhaps this summer) and I had intended to set the bell on the dingus so that it sits on my shoulder in the same position as the other "boners". I like the cut of your jib, sir.

I also think I may make it more in the old valve trombone layout. The cimbasso layout is a little bit of a visual distraction* for some of the old boy "Co-cola" drinking crowd here in "Mi'sippi"…

____________
* I borrowed one for the Verdi Requiem many years ago and liked it a lot, but did not see enough potential for using it at that time to justify buying one. (I had the funds then, so I wish I had bought it. It was a Kalison in F, and it played very well.) Anyway, I *still* get questions about it from patrons. "Wut duh hail wuz dat sumbitchin thang you wuz blowing on durin dat dair 'death mass' you boiz done at the Cath'lik choich? Funneh-looking thang, but ah shore lahked er."

I built one (in E flat) using a King valve set. After a bunch of different tweaks over the last several years, I think it’s dialed in pretty well now - .687 is a really good bore size in my opinion.

This horn in valve trombone format would be absolutely unmanageable, in weight and ergonomics.

I don’t think your experiences are necessarily unique to your region. I think the hardest part of making this horn will be convincing my colleagues to give it a try in our ensembles.

If an instrument really fits the music, you know it does, you play it well, and you bring it, there won't be any apprehension after you start playing it.

cimbasso specific suggestion to all:
Don't be tempted to make one with a marching baritone bell section.
I'm no expert on building them, but I am an expert on being lucky as hell building ONE of them.

orchestration/instrumentation comment:
I'm pretty sure that there are quite a few orchestral composers/arrangers who write fourth trombone parts assigning them to the tuba, because the tuba is what is there, and there's no fourth trombone there. The quote attributed to Verdi may or may not have expressed his true/complete/lifetime-consistent opinions, and - if they did - they were likely based on sucky tubas (or - possibly...?? - one sucky tuba operated by one sucky player) that were available during that time, but - Verdi aside - I've encountered tons of music (tons of "pop" and some so-called "classical") whereby it seems as though the tuba was reluctantly used to cover a de facto fourth trombone part. Finally (and I post the same crap over-and-over) a good and well-operated cimbasso (valve contrabass trombone) sounds better than most any tuba - just about 100% - when brass quintets perform transcriptions of 500-year-old "all voices are equal" pieces, which circumvents the bottom voice sounding like a "too busy bass line". For those who are counting on their fingers, quintet transcriptions of Bach organ pieces sound OK played on tubas, because the pedal range (of - at least - modern organs) often sounds a lot like a tuba...
...I've already typed enough crap here, but one of my freeway philharmonics has - over the years - programmed at least three (more?) pops concerts with the same cover band, because the bassist (bandleader) writes such great arrangements, and such great parts for the orchestral instruments. (He can't read a note, but "writes" with the keyboard, and someone else converts the parts to sheet music.) The first time they came through, I used the cimbasso. He was knocked out because [1] he could clearly hear my part [2] my part had a distinctive sound [3] my part blended with the trombones (when he wrote my part as a de facto fourth trombone part), and [4] my part added color to his bass lines (rather than disappearing into his bass lines) when he wrote my parts in unison with himself.
I will also admit that I've tried out the cimbasso playing "Latin" orchestral works...and it's nearly always a bit too brash. Quite a few (certainly not all...maybe not even most) "Latin" orchestral works seem to be sort-of "expanded mariachi" or (if not that) with at least some references to mariachi...and the bass in a mariachi band is the Guitarrón mexicano, which supplies a very soft/gentle bass resonance...and - hell no - I would never drag a cimbasso into a rehearsal of "Sensemaya".

Here are some of mine: Dillon 995 Bb (when it was new), Olds G baritone bugle, 1920's Holton Eb, Reynolds Sousaphone in my music room.

World War Two-ba: An alliance of the Americans, British and Swiss (yeah, sure) vs. the Germans