TubaForum.net

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:46 am**

Worth wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:11 am
Three Valves wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:23 pm Ease of play is huge!!

I read that “taming the piggy” post and just didn’t get it.

I do not find unnecessary work, fun.
Neither do I. Not to make myself look like a sucker, but when you have spent good money for something (which you have been unable to play test.... I know that is the root of the problem) you try to figure out what the deal is and how to make things work. I had a friend who is an excellent tuba player (subjective) give it a shot this past weekend (he uses a larger MP than I do) with similar results in the upper range. I chalk it up to the gigantic huge bore leadpipe which is like a garden hose on this thing. I even hooked up my real garden hose to a QHR (quick horn rinse) and flushed it out. Edited as I have now tried a smaller MP on this (Wick 3L) with better results up high. Maybe that is the solution to keep my lips from flapping when the notes break up. I really think resistance is the issue and a proper MP. Anyone looking to sell a Miraphone C4 or TU23 (32.5 w/ 7.5 throat)? Puts this in the FS area and apologizes for the minor thread hijack

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:43 am**

to jtm:

superior intonation, flexibility, and response characteristics

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:46 am**

jtm wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:02 pm Besides plain mechanical problems, what makes a tuba hard to play? Or what makes it easy?

LeMark wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:35 pm ...
From what I understand Cerveny and Amati rotary horns were made in the same factory, with the Horns marked amati having less Nickel silver trim, and those were also the horns that were rebadged as stencils (like custom music sanders)
This is getting off topic, but my tuba says "Scherzer inh. Sander" (not Sanders), but also made in West Germany. I've no idea who really made it, or when. Was Sander/Sanders one of those names put on various tuba from multiple sources?

Sander was B&S stencil. I'm not sure about Sanders

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:20 am**

LeMark wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:38 pmI would. but the leadpipe on this one is already pretty short without many bends to it. Short of giving the leadpipr a complete makover and having it approach the valve section at the 45 degree angle, there isn't room to raise it higher on the bell without making it not wrap around the bell when it reaches my face.

I think I need to find a way to keep a pad or stand with me when I play it

Understood. Thanks.

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:22 am**

Doc wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:46 am Sander was B&S stencil. I'm not sure about Sanders

But would a B&S stencil say West Germany and Augsburg? Perfectly happy for it to be a B&S stencil; just confused.

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:45 am**

jtm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:22 am
Doc wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:46 am Sander was B&S stencil. I'm not sure about Sanders
But would a B&S stencil say West Germany and Augsburg? Perfectly happy for it to be a B&S stencil; just confused.

I can't say for sure, but then again, it is a stencil. There isn't consistency in the GDR B&S logo from generation to generation, and the stencils sometimes vary depending on which retail business ordered the stencil. This would be a good time for our dear friend and guru @Robert Tucci to assist. He knows some of the master craftsmen/folks/etc. from that era - so if Bob doesn't already know the information himself, he knows the people who were around B&S when those instruments were being built.

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:26 pm**

Ace wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:01 pm Mark, I am always confused when I see an Amati-badge tuba with rotary valves. I have become accustomed to the Cerveny badge on rotary horns made by the Amati Corp. The Cerveny horns I think are made in a little town east of Prague, and the Amati piston horns made near the German/Czech border. Can you clarify? Thanks.

Ace

As I know it was one company called Amati Denak with two or more factories. In the past the rotary tubas were branded Amati, later Cerveny. The Amati 481 BBb like mine later was selled as Cerveny 681. The later piston horns have less reputation.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:56 am**

Thanks so much for the suggestion, Doc. Robert Tucci was very kind and took some time to offer some history and guesses.

Scherzer was a good shop located in Augsburg. I can look up some dates as required. There were many good instruments made there, before and after after WWII in partciular. Scherzer trombones were in use here into the Fifties, the C Bass trompets were legendary, the theatre in Augsburg owns a small Cimbasso in F, there were various old Scherzer trombones at the BSO [Bavarian State Opera] but most "walked out the door", no longer used. ...

Scherzer obtained parts as required, some from his Vogtland homeland, later from Mirafone. What we are looking at seems to fall into the latter category.

The age of the more or less one-man small shop with a dedicated competent Meister is for the most part over. Walter Nirschl has such a shop, small production at very high quality.

You seem to have a genuine Scherzer instrument. ... Your instrument looks like something made in the mid- to late Sixties. Fred Marrich, the deceased former owner of the old Custom Music Company, was one of the first American dealer/buyers who worked into Europe. At one time or other, Fred was imporing "Alexander" and also genuine "Scherzer" tubas. The Scherzer instruments were all either one-offs or in very small quantities.

I guess that means I'll have trouble finding replacement parts...

The paddles and linkages are not original, and the tall keel is hidden in the grass.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:04 pm**

I thought I'd define "easy to play" for myself....that's a) not stuffy; b) doesn't suck the air out of my lungs (opposite of stuffy;) c) hoop-jumping not required to play in tune. After that....tone, which I've learned is easier for me to fix than the above abc.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:15 pm**

humBell wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:36 pm Subject made me think of a certain Sondheim song...

Bloke served a dark and a hungry god. I shudder to think, he'd be so good at it too.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:48 pm**

For me, on a CC tuba, if pedal Eb is an easy and solid note, the rest of the tuba is usually just fine as well.

If that pedal Eb is a real stinker, then the rest of the tuba often has issues as well.

Could be coincidence, but has been true everywhere so far

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:15 am**

TubātōTubŏtō wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:15 pm
humBell wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:36 pm Subject made me think of a certain Sondheim song...

Bloke served a dark and a hungry god. I shudder to think, he'd be so good at it too.

Nice Sweeney Todd reference

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:19 am**

I tend to roll my eyes (ok...only a little bit, because it's their property - to do with as they please) when I see altered mouthpipe tubes (simply to "fit" a current owner) on some otherwise-fine instrument.

Something such as this - nearly always - solves most all "mouthpipe doesn't line up with my mouth" issues, and (importantly) is reversible (as many of us don't end up owning instruments for our entire lifetimes).

I'm also remembering that - in the past - there was a Velcro-attaching system (similar to this) that could be duplicated, and which would be completely reversible (with no cosmetic consequences whatsoever).

This otherwise troublesome-to-hold-and-play funny little/big instrument is now hold-and-play issue-free.

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:07 am**

My tuba epiphany.

What I want in a tuba (my opinions), I know that others have different ideas and I respect those opinions:

To be able to place the note where I want it (wide slots), I do not want the tuba to place the note for me. I am also a string bass player (played it professionally) and I know where the note should be. There were years that I played string bass much more than tuba.

The ability to blend with different instruments as needed. One of my teachers (David Bragunier) used to tell me that you will have to do this and I agree.

I like a general purpose tuba that I can play in any type of group. Much of my professional playing was done in areas that have very little space (pits and small stages) or standing in jazz bands. I do not like to have a collection of tubas on a job.

At least four valves.

My Alex 163 CC does all of the above for me and it plays with a minimum of slide pulling. Alternate fingerings are necessary but I am used to these after 46 years of playing the same tuba. It is also the only tuba that I can take time off from playing and still sound like I know what I am doing (clearly not as good as when I am in shape).

Best,
Mark

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:56 am**

Mark E. Chachich wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:07 am My tuba epiphany...[good Post]

Yeah, I think a working tuba player - who wishes to be hired back over and over – tends to seek out instruments that come as close as possible to centering on no-touch equal temperament, but - yet - can be moved as much as 20c either way, when needed (which can be fairly often, considering pitches’ functions in chords, and working with some others - whose pitch sensibilities may not be particularly acute), and without any loss of resonance.

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:20 pm**

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:19 am I tend to roll my eyes (ok...only a little bit, because it's their property - to do with as they please) when I see altered mouthpipe tubes (simply to "fit" a current owner) on some otherwise-fine instrument.

Something such as this - nearly always - solves most all "mouthpipe doesn't line up with my mouth" issues, and (importantly) is reversible (as many of us don't end up owning instruments for our entire lifetimes).

I'm also remembering that - in the past - there was a Velcro-attaching system (similar to this) that could be duplicated, and which would be completely reversible (with no cosmetic consequences whatsoever).

This otherwise troublesome-to-hold-and-play funny little/big instrument is now hold-and-play issue-free.

Yeahbut that is only true if the only problem is height. My problem is angle, and I need it quite a bit different than "straight in" to the chops. Only people that straight-in works for end up being able to spend hours on the instrument without damaging their necks. We angle people go through a lot of pain because we can't get the tuba angled to where we need it.

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:40 pm**

Hi Mary Ann,

The bottom of that peg (resting on the chair seat) can be moved all over the place (in the triangle of space between a player's thighs)...
...and also from "nearly-out-to-the-edge-of-the-chair" all the way in to "nearly-'getting-personal-with'-the-player"...which is how a mouthpipe angle change is affected.

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:48 pm**

I find that "good enough" is always a factor/consideration. For me, "good enough" to get the job done with minimal work, and cost is what guides my purchase/selling habits. Sure, I sound considerably better on XX tuba rather than my Conn 25J. However, it gets the job done, it didn't cost very much, and it's super easy to maintain. Are there plenty of other BBb tubas that cost about the same, that would work? From my buying/selling experiences, "yes," and I enjoy experimenting from time to time. I could almost say the same about the Besson 782 EEb that I currently own. Although not as easy to maintain, due to the lesser build quality, it works well for whenever I need a bass tuba, and it was very inexpensive.

Who decides "good enough," well if you're playing for money, "they" do, so that should be motivation enough to purchase/acquire the appropriate tool (s) for the job. If you are playing for fun, in community groups, "you" decide

However, "consideration of others" is always a good guiding principle

Now, could I have complely different equipment next time this topic is addressed... maybe

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:58 pm**

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:19 am I tend to roll my eyes (ok...only a little bit, because it's their property - to do with as they please) when I see altered mouthpipe tubes (simply to "fit" a current owner) on some otherwise-fine instrument.

Something such as this - nearly always - solves most all "mouthpipe doesn't line up with my mouth" issues, and (importantly) is reversible (as many of us don't end up owning instruments for our entire lifetimes).

I'm also remembering that - in the past - there was a Velcro-attaching system (similar to this) that could be duplicated, and which would be completely reversible (with no cosmetic consequences whatsoever).

This otherwise troublesome-to-hold-and-play funny little/big instrument is now hold-and-play issue-free.

It took me an absurdly long time realize you just stuck an endpin (ala a cello or upright bass) on a tuba.

I originally was confused by the mouthpipe discussion into thinking the long bar attached to the bottom bow was doing something for the mouthpiece...

But then i had the epiphany!

If you were in a parade, would you put a wheel on the end?

Or perhaps a pogo stick?

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:58 am**

If I was in a parade, I’d probably use a sousaphone or American bell-front baritone – which can be cradled easily above the left hand. When I’ve been hired to do parades, I‘ve tried to not take instruments along that were worth much more than the remuneration for being involved.

More likely, though, I would be sitting up high on the back of a shiny vintage convertible - waving to all of my adoring fans.

Of course, that peg was photographed in storage position. It gets pulled out pretty far, when is resting on a chair seat.

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