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Ok Joe, I’m gonna start by saying I know it can be done because it has been successfully, and I’m not asking you to do the work (because it probably would be crazy)…. BUT, any idea what it would take to add a fifth PISTON for the left hand???

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders ... geIC6SQDG5

Kctuba wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:47 pm Ok Joe, I’m gonna start by saying I know it can be done because it has been successfully, and I’m not asking you to do the work (because it probably would be crazy)…. BUT, any idea what it would take to add a fifth PISTON for the left hand???

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders ... geIC6SQDG5

I’m guessing that the settings on that folder are not public, because I couldn’t get access,
but - with no pictures - I would imagine that such a piston would still need to be 4th dependent, and that the fourth circuit would need to be wildly detoured to accommodate some sort of horizontal thumb piston…a bit like the way that a fourth valve in the form of a piston is configured on a Schmidt style double French horn.

I’m fascinated by some of the things that people do, but (and I’m not denying that I could - were I motivated - do some of the things that I’ve seen others do) I’m just one who always looks for the simplest solution which requires the least amount of alteration and the least amount of time and money.
My issues are all of the local people who carpet bomb me with repair work, all of the things around here on this property that need to be maintained and fixed, my own performance schedule (enough of a “part-time job“ that it’s enough to where I remember that I actually do play the tuba), and quite a few darn nice instruments (bought over the years and tossed upstairs) waiting for me to put them in nice shape to be sold, along with yet a couple of personal project *instruments I would like to realize, which are currently boxes of parts and pieces.

Honestly, I really liked that 381 - once I addressed the (reported above) fifth valve circuit length issue.
Did I like it? again: absolutely.
Did I need to keep it for myself? Absolutely not.

As far as locating a piston and casing, it seems to me that a donor King sousaphone valveset would be the best candidate (same bore), but - though I may not quite as anal as Wade – for something like this that I would like to own for myself… If I actually waste for the fifth valve to be a piston (which I wouldn’t), I would probably want that piston and casing to be Yamaha-made, and to match the others.

As Mark mentioned, you’ve got some repair talent right there in Kansas City.
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* including one that I had better darn well finish somehow in February, and master playing it in time for an April concert including Dvorak 7, on which I’m contracted to play the 3rd trombone part. (I would really prefer to not cover that part on my F cimbasso.)

Reading through the responses what I see - and think true - is: ‘just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should’. That sentiment applies to an awful lot of things … it was a long time before that message arrived (at least partially sank in) with me.

The Besson 980 Sovereign variant has top action valves and a 17” Bell, there probably are clones. If an old Besson Imperial can be found then it has, IIRC, a 15” Bell plus four top action valves and is compensating. I’ve played an Imperial and would very happily play one again.

Maybe there are others but Wessex sell a 15” bell top action four valve compensating Tuba: https://www.wessex-tubas.com/products/e ... bino-te360

I guess I should keep my mouth shut about retailers and pricing, but the price shown on that link is higher than the prices I’ve seen on good playable genuine Egdware Rd. Besson 15 inch bell 3+1 compensating E-flat tubas.

viewtopic.php?t=4072

Link to pics is up and running! Anyone with ideas on the piston 5th, let me know. Stiles is my goal here in KC….

Based on that which you claim you desire, here's a drawing...

It's really easy to draw an imaginary picture of a non-existent piston valve assembly, and not have to figure out how its tubing will be routed.

Ha! Nice art work!

Maybe a rotor at the lead pipe???

For me, I'm not sure it makes much difference. It might be crowded to put the valve there (remember you have to leave room around the valve to allow it to be removed for service, ect)

Personally, I think a valve put after the valve section gives you more flexibility to place the valve where the bite of the valve fits the spot on the horn better. The bore of the leadpipe at that point might be very hard to find a valve for.

Some people are aware that I sold my Buescher helicon which has five valves and pitched in C.

I have acquired a four-valve top action Buescher tuba with a detachable recording bell which I believe features bows which were bent from the same expanding sheet metal body parts as the helicon - which theoretically should play just as well. (and I also have Buescher upright bells which can be used as alternate detachable bells).

The pistons are beautifully rebuilt, but the project just sits for a few reasons:
- available time
- the spotty silver plated finish over the entire instrument needing to be removed
- rigging up a fifth valve (which is just difficult on a top action, even though a top action is the easiest to shorten from B-flat to C).

How does that low E sound played 3 or 23? Some horns are better than others, some are really good. I realize this doesn't solve the other notes that a 5th valve would help on but if you've got a solid Ab and 24 E and A then you might just leave it as is.

The ghost tones on a 321 are basically useless. I can get it out if needed with 3rd, but getting pitch AND tone the extremely difficult part!

Kctuba wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:02 pm getting pitch AND tone is the extremely difficult part!

Man, you sure are picky!