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Thanks James. For now, it's this pre-181 Miraphone F. I'm no F tuba expert but it's pretty normal-sized, about 39" tall and a 15.3 bell, and a .770 bore.... I guess that's sort of firebird-ish size, minus the graduated bore. Nice clear F tuba sound that projects really well.

As much as anything else, this is kind of just for me and my own fun. Life isn't so serious. If we all self-indulge ourselves with 6/4 tubas then why not self-indulge with an F tuba instead?

jtm wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:30 pm

kingrob76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:07 pm

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:04 pm

But I already have the F tuba

which you will sell in 6 months

Is there a line for that F tuba yet that I should stand in? It looks like fun.

You can be #4 in line if you like.

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:59 pm ...
You can be #4 in line if you like.

Did you want to be in line for my 188? I've forgotten...

jtm wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:00 pm

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:59 pm ...
You can be #4 in line if you like.

Did you want to be in line for my 188? I've forgotten...

But you're not actually ... Are you?

dp wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:07 pm

IDK Dale, I see 7(!) CC tubas I your signature...

...

dp wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:45 pm

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:16 pm

dp wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:07 pm

IDK Dale, I see 7(!) CC tubas I your signature...

believe it or not, "186" is the best advice I could have for you, silly me for thinking you anything more than a troll after all these years

Oh chill out... Wait... if it's such good advice, why isn't one of your 7 CC tubas a 186? Because it's just YOUR advice for ME?

Anyway, yes, the 186 is a fine tuba, and I like them. I like the 188 more. But nothing wrong with the classic 186.

...

The Miraphone F tuba also easily fits in the trunk of my car. And is convenient and easy to navigate around the house, garage, etc. Ergonomics are great. Physically, it's 10 out of 10, and the LH 5th lever, any configuration, is very comfortable. As a lazy tuba player, shouldn't my own comfort be paramount to everything else?

I understand the tradeoffs of this vs a contrabass, let alone this vs my 5/4 Rudy BBb. But I have this unnerving feeling that the Rudy isn't right for me for my current needs. If band, then yes, the Rudy would shine. But in a smaller orchestra, I think I may complement the ensemble more with something a bit less. As I mentioned before, instead of a 3/4 CC, I think a decent sized F tuba would be better for me. F tuba low range, presence, and projection are not scary things!

The Rudy is so much,.it's undoubtedly fully sufficient, but it's not at all necessary. I think the Miraphone F is as big as necessary to be sufficient. But I need to test that -- I won't know until I try.

FWIW, I've always liked the idea of a large F tuba to do it all. Many years ago, I tried and really liked a MW Kodiak. It was like an F tuba when you wanted that, or like a small CC when you wanted that instead. Always thought that could be a great only tuba. I mean, if AB used only that and the 6450, there must be some serious zone coverage there. I know he used other stuff time to time, but when I lived in NYC and saw the NYPO so many times, it was mostly just those two instruments. Baer is Baer, and he sounded like himself on whatever he played. But also, Baer >>>>>>> Bort, so... an unknown Miraphone F tuba is what I bought, and I've got what I've got.

Thank you to the will-go-unnamed person who told me they play F much of the time, and some people like it and some don't. And it this were Germany, nobody would even ask this as a question.

So if I like it, and others in the group don't, I may go full Minnesota Nice on them and tell the to go pound sand. That'll show them. Maybe I'm just stubborn and determined to try and make this work, because I know it's possible.

If I don't like it, then I'll do what I have to do.

German players use F as a primary, especially in the past, but that was also dominated by repertoire. It’s still a majority player for most of them, but it seems like contrabass has gain share of the time to meet the needs of more modern repertoire and audience interest.

I’d reckon a larger, preferably 6 valve, F tuba would be fine for most playing.

What is this “trunk” thing?

Oh yeah… I remember. I do have one 22-year-old car with one of those things. (I’ve got that car loaned out to a friend.)

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:23 am The Miraphone F tuba also easily fits in the trunk of my car. And is convenient and easy to navigate around the house, garage, etc. Ergonomics are great. Physically, it's 10 out of 10, and the LH 5th lever, any configuration, is very comfortable. As a lazy tuba player, shouldn't my own comfort be paramount to everything else?

Ok so if those factors are a thing... *MAYBE* a 185 or a 184. Alan Baer took a 185 with him on his last RV trip and I'm fairly sure he could have taken anything he wanted for his "travel" tuba. I played a 184 at the last Army workshop and thought it was an EXCELLENT 3/4 tuba. I would argue you will be more comfortable PLAYING on a CC tuba given the playing I know you're doing and most likely to be doing from what you've described. Miraphone ergonomics are excellent in general. Trunk friendly, stairs friendly, and generally easy to play (in my opinion). I'm of the opinion that a CC horn will present a more flexible playing experience especially if you get yanked into a band or a brass quintet. Of all the keys out there for tuba a CC tuba is probably the only one where I could stop playing altogether for 6 months completely and still pick up and play without thinking.

The tuba you have works much better than the tuba you don't.

Don't listen to them, Brett. If you showed up to your rehearsal with that F tuba and the conductor notices that it has two fourth valves and no serial number, they'll kick you right out to the curb.

arpthark wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:25 am Don't listen to them, Brett. If you showed up to your rehearsal with that F tuba and the conductor notices that it has two fourth valves and no serial number, they'll kick you right out to the curb.

Hahahaha Actually, I think they screen for these things at the door, and I'd never get inside in the first place.

the elephant wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:16 pm Here is my highly skewed perspective on this:

I see the contrabass tuba as my Musical Homebase at all times. It is what I spend most of my time practicing. In fact, I was taught to warm up on the CC FIRST if I'm about to practice on F. (The reasons for this are numerous.)
...

I was never taught much, so ... is this (warming up first on the CC) mostly an extension of warming up first on the low range of whatever instrument you're playing at the moment? Or is there more to it?

It is easy to sort of cheat on air flow when practicing the F. Starting on the bug horn ensures that you are not doing this at the start of the day so that you do not have to repeat things on both horns; it is more efficient. Again, there are a lot of reasons. Sam Pilafian used to warm up on this huge BBb tuba. It was all he used that horn for, so far as I know. I was taught that if you were going to work on both horns on the same day, start with the big tuba.

I have a large GG contrabass bugle that I use for long tones, breath support, and flexibility before I start my *official* practice routine. I spend about five minutes actually warming up, much of that not even using a tuba (or even a mouthpiece on some things). After that five minutes are done I am as "warm" as I'm going to get. From that point, it is all work from a flexible routine of not-quite-daily drills that I rotate through. I do these on the CC.

If I work on F tuba I will quickly revisit *some* of the routine and then go right into working on music (or F tuba-specific issues I have to work out).

But that GG contrabass gets a few minutes every day.

Also, I practice air flow studies (like Cichowicz) with a mute in, at very soft dynamics. If you fail to keep the air stream flowing consistently there will be many breaks in the sound when muted. I also use earplugs on occasion to fix specific issues. I do not teach this stuff to my students unless they are pretty serious and willing to take extra time to experiment to find what does and does not work for them. What I do will not work for everyone, but it works for me. Warming up or doing daily routine work on the biggest air hog tuba I have at hand is something that has benefitted my breathing and tone production for many years. I have asthma and many, many allergies, so I have a lot of problems that many players have never experienced.

I view some of these methods as gimmicks (which is why I do not teach them to non-major students). But, in truth: If it actually works is it really a gimmick? No, not according to the dictionary, so whatever these methods are, for me they work.

I might be wrong.
I studied with him for a short time (until he moved so far away).

I'm thinking that Al Baer does the opposite (and I'm not weighing his cachet against anyone's else...but only comparing two players without any consideration of renown).

(In my view, "Arnold Jacobs always said..." isn't necessarily some that's going to work for so-and-so any more than "A teaching Assistant at Oklahoma State suggested..." is going to...and I've made it pretty clear - consistently - what my opinions are of certifications/degrees/peer review/etc., so...)

I'm thinking (and if he would show up and correct or clarify, that would be amazing) that he may have stated that he warms up on F, to keep things focused as well as to avoid over-playing. Also, if he's having a bit of trouble with a passage played traditionally on contrabass tuba (or even if he's not) he might play that same passage on F (even if quite low) for the same reason(s), and then move over/back-to the contrabass instrument.

Everyone has their own approach which they've determined works best for them.

Even today (when my F tuba isn't getting used as much as in the past), it remains my MOST FAMILIAR TO ME instrument, as far as (simply) playing, phrasing, reading-on-the-fly, and most everything. I can practice-and-practice on a C or B-flat instrument and become quite pleased with "how I'm doing" with either/any of those (and honestly, I don't practice euphonium or E-flat all that much), but I can pick up the F and play through most things (even if unfamiliar) most easily, and (probably) the most "nicely"...
...Admittedly I - too - when some contrabass passage or piece - here - has seemed to become "bogged down", I might pick up the F-length instrument, play through that piece/passage, and - having THEN - having played through it (putting forth much less effort, and - well - with success) - can then (magically?) pick up a contrabass instrument and (OK..."I JUST finished playing that pretty well, and without working my tail off". ) play through the same passage (much closer to my liking than the first time through with the contrabass) with the contrabass instrument, and (per what's more appropriate for whatever piece or passage) with the "weightier" contrabass sonority...

...and (whether I really should or not...and maybe I really should...??) I still don't really "warm up". My first sound (at a rehearsal) is usually the first written not at top-left, and (at home) whatever I decided to work on (that prompted me to sit down and "practice" in the first place). I'm not recommending this, but merely stating what is existential and what occurs.

For quite a while, I was the only tuba in a youth concert band.
The MW 46 with 38mm bell was all I owned, and I was quite aware that "Tuba II" is the default part if You´re the only tuba in ANY setting.
Therefore, I´m passing first-hand amateur knowledge telling You that a large-ish F (which the MW 46 is NOT) can do anything AND please an audience doing so.

I had to grow up to be 33 until I figured out SOMETHING was missing (to ME, not people around me), and added contrabass to my equipment.
Today I think one needs a truly large contrabass (5 to 6 quarters), a small contrabass (three quarters) and a smallish F to be able to play anything without compromising one´s own artistic ambitions.

My latest acquisition is trying to decceive me into accepting an F-tuba with exchangeable leadpipe as a replacement to the TWO smaller horns mentioned above.