Goldbrass vs yellow

[peterbas]

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[peterbas]

@peterbas, the Dillon mouthpieces that had the bronze blank option from about 20 years ago were silver plated just like the normal brass ones.

Other than the stamping difference, the bronze were notably heavier. That was their approach to a heavy mass mouthpiece without the silly looking blank design.

[bloke]

Dave asked me whether I could tell any difference (in the playing) - ie. bronze.

"nope" was my response.

I believe Dave is attracted to working with harder materials, and (particularly since bronze is hard, yet turns/machines very nicely) sometimes wonders about making shanks out of bronze, rather than steel. That having been said, bronze also doesn't "mush" any less than steel and - those of you who might have slightly varying receivers - bronze won't "mush" into them any more easily than will steel (whereas sometimes brass mouthpiece shanks can be "convinced" into odd-tapered receivers). (If a brass mouthpiece's exit bore metal thickness is thin enough, brass is sometimes soft enough to "mush" into a receiver whereby the taper is wider than Jarno. Even when a brass mouthpiece's small end might be thicker, over time, over time it can be "mushed" (swedged/shrunk/whatever) into an odd-taper receiver...and (when the receiver is formed from the mouthpipe tube) the receiver can also - over time - end up being expanded at the small end.

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The receiver (seemingly typical of many modern era mouthpiece receivers) on the model 98 seems to be yet another "happy medium" (barely accommodates "standard", but extends out far enough to offer good optics with "euro") receiver.

These economy-priced Symphony cup/back-bore threaded underparts do the same - they're in-between so-called "standard" and "euro". It fits in the modell 98 receiver quite nicely, and back from the choke point at a spot very much to my personal liking. (I'm thinking that a "standard" shank was just about right at the very choke point itself, and that was affecting focus in a couple of ranges of pitches.)

btw...Mouthpiece shanks that are intentionally in-between so-called "standard" and "euro". Several mouthpiece makers have embraced this strategy, and for quite a few years (decades)...so it's not some clever bloke strategy. Rather, it's bloke imitating the clever strategy of others.
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"measured"...again: Measuring tools are manufactured (and their parameters defined) by men.

Plenty of rockets - with measurements of things down to .XXXX or .XXXXX - have exploded - either due to a flaw in the measuring itself, flaw in the measuring tools, or complete unawareness of other sets of factors...or even "We're tired of trying to solve this problem, so let's just pretend that it doesn't exist and hope for the best."
I do not "pooh-pooh" science/technology, but am aware that those things are applied/misapplied/miscalculated/misunderstood/partially ignored by men, as men are flawed machines.

[peterbas]

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[Doc]

@bloke got to try my goldbrass 6v Symphonie next to his (yellow brass). Sound differences that I heard? They were discernible to me, but likely not significant enough for the average audience member to discern. Are the differences due to material, minor differences in the handwork/fitting, or some other factor? I don’t know. The comment he made that I remember most was that it played really well and the valves were not worn despite its age. He also did not ask to trade. I have played his, and it is a really excellent example of this model.

I’ve owned a yb Alex F, and I liked it better than the gb I tried. I’ve owned both a yb 181 and a gb 181, and I much preferred the gb. I owned a yb Firebird that was absolutely superb in every way - gb would not have been an improvement (should have kept it). I own the gb Symphonie (I really like the sound), and I owned a Kanstul 90 (another I should have kept). I owned a yb 188, and my compadre had a rose brass 188 - I was NOT a fan of the rose brass, but he sounded great on it. I have played a couple of yb Bruckners, and I tried a gb Bruckner - the gb was impressive , but I think the yb would get the nod. I definitely like the gb Miraphone Elektra.

Not sure what all that means other than maybe a player should simply find the instrument that speaks and resonates with them regardless of metallurgy.

[donn]

A lot more weight on a mouthpiece does seem to make an audible difference.

Well ... it's always interesting (though too bad about that guy), but let's recognize that while there may be hardly any way to get a reliable comparison, this isn't the way. It's too easy for a player to get exactly the difference he expects.

Aside from that ... what would the equivalent tuba mouthpiece weigh, maybe around 10 lbs? Weighted bottom valve cylinder caps would be safer and easier to balance.

[peterbas]

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[bloke]

What if someone chose to ~identify~ a heavy mouthpiece as a lightweight mouthpiece?

Doesn't everyone have the right to choose?

[peterbas]

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[iMav]

Does Sterling Silver mean silver plated yellow brass? Or do people make whole trumpet bells from solid silver?

Not plated...

Dave Werden has an Adams E3 euphonium with a Sterling Silver bell.

[bloke]

I know the store that sells bronze mouthpieces for half what they sell them for.

[pjv]

4 Miraphone stories
- when I choose my 186CC out at the California factory back in the 70’s I had had a whopping 7 to choose from. 5 were good, 1 was a lot better and 1 was head and shoulders above the rest. Even in the 70’s Miraphone was one of the more quality consistent factories on the planet for tubas, yet here were 7 very different axes.
All were yellow brass.
-when the Electra came out I was able to try 4, 1 yellow, 1 yellow with extra gold brass highlights, 1 silver and one gold brass. All were good. I particularly liked the second one. Based on experiences (like the above mentioned) I don’t think the difference had much to do with the material.
-I was rather fond of how fun it was to play a 91 in rotary valves. I’ve tried 5 and 3 were a blast to play: those 3 were made from yellow brass. The other 2 red and both real difficult to play.
-at the German factory I tried 2 98’s: the yellow brass was a winner and the silver a loser.

Also I might add that I did some Conn 36H(fiberglass) vs 14H comparison recordings and few could hear the difference. Those who could didn’t really have a preference for one or the other.

I find it’s safer not to care and just buy the tuba I like to play on.

[jtm]

..., I probably should have found a way to keep the GB 188 (you're welcome @jtm) given the rarity of that horn but what it helped me buy was worth the switch and that new one is the best fit for me, yet.

What *I* learned is that a smaller all GB instrument - for me - would be just fine. Something for quintets, for example. The resistance to red rot is a real thing, too.

Thank you so much, Rob. I do feel quite fortunate and lucky to have been in the right place to get it. I spent some time with it today, after weeks of not needing it for an ensemble, and it rewarded me with its wonderful rich brassy sound and effortless responsiveness. I've never played a yellow brass 188 (or C 186, either), and I'm really unlikely to have a YB 188 of the same vintage and construction at the same time to compare it with, so I've no idea how the GB (and nickel silver inner branches) changes the sound. For me, with a C4 or Blokepiece Imperial, it's plenty bright and lively sounding.

[jtm]

Nothing to do with GB vs. YB, but I was just cleaning a bell (~40 years old, German), with one hand in the bell to keep things from moving, and I could feel the scrubbing hand through the bell. Nothing wrong, but I was surprised, and also surprised that I'd never noticed this before.

[bloke]

I only tend to get into trouble when I don't bring a tuba, don't bring a mouthpiece, or don't bring EITHER.

Even when I forget my friggin' sheet music, someone's got a hotspot, someone else has a tablet, and the music can be pulled off an email or musicians' webpage.