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Bloke, Thats interesting to know. Did they happen to come in the piston variety?

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Grumpikins wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:57 am Bloke, Thats interesting to know. Did they happen to come in the piston variety?

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I know that King offered piston single F horns. We had one in our rental fleet, and I didn't consider it desirable or collectible - as apparently no one else did either - so we just rented it out.
This might not (??) be a picture of a King, and the E-flat auxiliary slide always had a storage place in the lid of the case (which explains why old single horn cases - which still exist - feature a higher arch in their lids).

http://hornmatters.com/2017/03/a-quick- ... /img_1617/

Do you possibly still have that horn? and the Eb slide? Just considering..... possibilities.... when i might have a chance to use such an instrument....

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Uggh. Nevermind. My wishlist outgrows my pocketbook. I need to stop looking at the internet.......

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Yes, French horns were sold with both rotary and piston valves, and with Eb crooks. The Conn 2D was Conn's single F piston horn with Eb crook at the time. As mentioned before, any of those instruments could and did read the Eb horn band parts, and anyone who brought a French horn certainly used the Eb crook if they had it.

The American single piston horns of the time were generally the same as the rotary models, but there's also the real FRENCH horns (Selmer, Courtois, Couesnon, etc.) with ascending valves that also used piston valves...but that's a whole different can of worms!

JRaymo wrote: ↑Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:17 pm Back more than 20 or so years ago custom music had a whole pallet of those back in the back just piled upon one another. I was able to pick one up for pretty cheap. A couple small dings in it but appeared to be new never used otherwise. Mine is a York master with a recording bell.


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A guy in my old brass band brought in a York a alto horn once, front valves and a fixed recording bell, just like a tiny King tuba or American baritone. A guy in the Chicago Brass Band had a custom 6 valve alto horn so he could play it in tune without slide pulling.

Since we're on the subject, here's a pair of Conn F horns from their 1914 catalog.

Bob Kolada wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:17 pmA guy in the Chicago Brass Band had a custom 6 valve alto horn so he could play it in tune without slide pulling.

Now that I'd love to see!

How did I miss this thread?

But it isn't "talented" horn players who play Eb parts. It is ALL horn players who have to play Eb parts in band music. Marches in particular are common, but "regular" pieces too sometimes, if they maybe came from the brass band literature.

British brass bands (I play in one here, Eb tuba currently) have alto horns on the appropriate parts (Solo, 1st, 2nd.) Some bands will have (French) horns play the alto part, if they don't feel the need to be authentic, and some hornists playing an alto on the part will use an adaptor and a horn mouthpiece, but the parts are in Eb treble, and use "cornet fingerings." It would be rare that someone would show up to a concert band with an Eb alto horn, because they would have to transpose everything written for horn in F.

Alto horn is MUCH easier to play than (French) horn, because it's playing an octave down in the harmonic series for the same pitches.

When our brass band was getting underway, the French horn players just transposed everything up one step on the fly and never had a problem.

Finetales wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:52 pm Since we're on the subject, here's a pair of Conn F horns from their 1914 catalog.

Bob Kolada wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:17 pmA guy in the Chicago Brass Band had a custom 6 valve alto horn so he could play it in tune without slide pulling.

Now that I'd love to see!

I don't remember much of anything about it, I think it was a nominally top valve instrument. I subbed in with them on 'solo' trombone (1st part, not a solo). I do remember I played somewhat poorly- my Benge 190F had a little hitch around 2nd position and I've never been a tenor player.
Looking at the website it doesn't seem as though that guy is currently in the band.

Grumpikins wrote: ↑Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:15 am Hornucopia states that alto horns are generally an octave higher than french horn. I also note that civil war photos display saxhorns, baritone horns, occasional small tuba, and what looks like alto/tenor horns. And trumpets of course.

Well, not exactly. The alto horn is roughly half the length of tubing of the French horn. But, they generally play in basically the same range.

Civil war bands were primarily composed of saxhorns. They included Eb Cornets, Bb Cornets, Alto Horns, Tenor Horns, Baritones, Bb Basses, and Eb Basses.

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Duplicate info.