Yamaclone F arrived!

[arpthark]

Thanks (as always) for the thoughtful post, @Rick Denney. Some good points. I also wonder if it is the same instrument as the Yamah-stamped version. I'd love to do a side-by-side with someone's pedigreed Yamaha once mine arrives.

I did notice that, based on pics I was sent by the factory, the valve caps and bottom caps seem to be (similar to my Jinbao compensating euph) nickel-plated, the trim seems awfully like nickelplate as opposed to nickel silver, and the mouthpipe seems to be "cupronickel," as the ad verbiage states. Red brass-ish.

Rick "whose 621 has probably seen its value cut in half because of these clones, but it's okay because it's not for sale" Denney

As far as I know, the F tuba copies are not available/listed on any of the big US resalers' websites. Mack only sells the CC version. Thomann in Deutschland has the F copy listed with an expected in-stock date of October. I had to go directly through an Ali Baba company (who is a wholeseller of Jinbao instruments) and they asked how many tubas I would want (one!), what I wanted stamped on the bell, etc. I avoided hubris and it is a blank, no-name tuba now. The actual Jinbao model number is the JFF-303.

[the elephant]

Cupronickel is nickel silver. Or, more accurately, it is what spawned a competition that led to the creation of "German Silver". The alloys are not the same, but the Germans did a good job of figuring it out back in those days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupronickel

[arpthark]

Cupronickel is nickel silver. Or, more accurately, it is what spawned a competition that led to the creation of "German Silver". The alloys are not the same, but the Germans did a good job of figuring it out back in those days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupronickel

Yeah, the Chinese companies call the red brass mouthpipe "cupronickel," but that's likely incorrect, as it looks like... red brass.

[bone-a-phone]

....

7.) as Lee Hipp once described it during a visit, with the 621 there is a ceiling above which it will not go. When one needs more volume, the only strategy is to use a shallow mouthpiece and go trombone-like.

8.) speaking of going trombone-like, a 621 works very well for bass trombone parts in quintet arrangements scored for two trombones.

9.) but otherwise, a 621 seems to work best with a contrabass tuba mouthpiece, and not a specialist F tuba mouthpiece. This has been the case less since I learned how to play the low register of a B&S, however.

Ah, these are interesting comments. I've been looking for a valved conical thing to take the place of a bass bone...

[djtubat]

I also ordered the same tuba and it should arrive in 5 days. do you have it with paint or without paint?

[arpthark]

I also ordered the same tuba and it should arrive in 5 days. do you have it with paint or without paint?

I think quite a few of us ordered this tuba from China after I posted this thread. (well, at least two others).

Not exactly sure what you mean by "paint," but mine is lacquered. Should arrive on Friday. We'll see if UPS will be on time.

[djtubat]

please excuse my bad English. i have to work with a translator because my school english is not the best. I ordered it unlacquered because I want to make a few modifications.

[arpthark]

please excuse my bad English. i have to work with a translator because my school english is not the best. I ordered it unlacquered because I want to make a few modifications.

Your English is great, just wasn't sure what "paint" meant! Yes, lacquered for me. Although if I realized I could have ordered it without lacquer, I would have done that. I was given the option of lacquer or silver.

[djtubat]

Actually silver would be my first choice. but I'm not so sure how durable the coating on a china tuba is. Price for lacquered and unlacquered is the same.

[arpthark]

Actually silver would be my first choice. but I'm not so sure how durable the coating on a china tuba is. Price for lacquered and unlacquered is the same.

Yep, I am skeptical of the thickness of Chinese silver. I can always strip the lacquer if I need to.

What modifications are you planning?

[bloke]

JP (China-made) silver plated instruments' silver plating features an alloy of silver and antimony, which hardens it.

So far, I haven't seen wear in any of them sold to schools around here.

The added cost of silver plating (vs. lacquered) jumped precipitously with JP, this year.
Previously, the added cost for silver plating regarding this brand (in my view) had been out-of-proportion low.

Knowing what happens with tubas (and also knowing that I am tempted to monkey with them), I'm always hoping that any tubas that if find (which I desire to purchase for my own use) feature lacquer finishes.

[arpthark]

That's great. I'm sure JP has higher QC standards than Jin Bao, and I think (??) that this Yamaclone is a Jin Bao.

I've seen three-or-four-years-old silver JB-made euphs and tubas with big splotches of silver that have worn off. Maybe those are older than I'm thinking, though. But I wasn't about to mess around and find out.

[djtubat]

Actually silver would be my first choice. but I'm not so sure how durable the coating on a china tuba is. Price for lacquered and unlacquered is the same.

Yep, I am skeptical of the thickness of Chinese silver. I can always strip the lacquer if I need to.

What modifications are you planning?

I will probably replace the lead pipe. I think that will improve the tuba. or maybe I will even be surprised and the tuba is already very good in its original condition. I would actually like to have the bell rebuilt so that it can be screwed off. provided the tuba is good enough and worth the investment.

I got the idea of ​​converting this tuba into a compact travel tuba from [mention]Kontrabasstuba [/mention]

[arpthark]

Actually silver would be my first choice. but I'm not so sure how durable the coating on a china tuba is. Price for lacquered and unlacquered is the same.

Yep, I am skeptical of the thickness of Chinese silver. I can always strip the lacquer if I need to.

What modifications are you planning?

I will probably replace the lead pipe. I think that will improve the tuba. or maybe I will even be surprised and the tuba is already very good in its original condition. I would actually like to have the bell rebuilt so that it can be screwed off. provided the tuba is good enough and worth the investment.

Just based on the reputation of this model, and no prior experience with it, I was thinking:

- smaller mouth pipe
- 16" bell

but that's putting the cart before the horse. Or the repairman before the tuba. We will see, hopefully soon.

[djtubat]

yeah we'll see what happens. a comparison to the original would also be interesting - if someone has the opportunity to do this

[arpthark]

This arrived today. It came with a foam body zipper case and a Bach 18-ish mouthpiece.



Initial impressions:

- Wow! This is a good-playing tuba (no, not just "for the money").

- This tuba can play in tune pretty well (alternate fingerings: 13 for top space G; 134 for Ab below the staff; 3rd valve for D's and A's; some others surely will arise the more I work with a tuner).

- The low range on this tuba is accessible, as following the reputation of the model it copies.

- While not as brilliant-sounding as a German F tuba, it still can get a pretty nice/punchy sound, reminiscent of a Besson 15" bell Eb (my other current bass tuba). I'd say the Besson has more character, but the Yamaclone definitely still sounds nice.

- The high range is not quite as easy as some F tubas I have played, but it is more in-tune than a Besson 15" bell Eb.

- This thing is small and light!

Fit/finish:

- Lacquer seems nice. I don't see any stray solder blobs or anything like what are on my Schiller euph.

- Fifth valve linkage is quiet and fast, and seems nicer than I am accustomed to with Chinese rotary valves.

- Valves are very fast and air-tight. They feel just as nice as Yamaha valves. There are some sharp edges to be wary of on certain machined parts. Threads of the bottom valve caps and things like that are a bit rough. If I am not careful, I could see myself cross-threading the bottom valve caps. Upper valve caps are fine. The fake mother-of-pearl inlays look and feel a bit cheap.

- As a brand new tuba, there was bit of black gunk and some stray metal shavings/machining remnants in the instrument when I received it. I flushed it out in the bathtub with the detachable showerhead and that helped. I also sprayed the bathroom ceiling on accident, because a detachable showerhead is not like a waterhose and I forgot that.

Other stuff:

- There is a strange sympathetic resonance/after-ring that I am getting on a few pitches (D in the staff and G above it). It sounds close to my head and I can't detect it in recordings -- maybe some vinyl tubing on the bell will help. Really the only weird thing about the tuba.

- I am not having any of the ergonomics problems people talk about with this model. It is pretty comfortable to me. I played it today for a few hours and my wrist feels fine. Must be the way I hold it.

Overall very pleased. And now you can get your very own Schiller-maha version without doing a kinda-shady-feeling Western Union transfer to China like I did, for only a few hundred bucks more.

[jonesbrass]

This arrived today. It came with a foam body zipper case and a Bach 18-ish mouthpiece.



Initial impressions:

- Wow! This is a good-playing tuba (no, not just "for the money").

- This tuba can play in tune pretty well (alternate fingerings: 13 for top space G; 134 for Ab below the staff; 3rd valve for D's and A's; some others surely will arise the more I work with a tuner).

- The low range on this tuba is accessible, as following the reputation of the model it copies.

- While not as brilliant-sounding as a German F tuba, it still can get a pretty nice/punchy sound, reminiscent of a Besson 15" bell Eb (my other current bass tuba). I'd say the Besson has more character, but the Yamaclone definitely still sounds nice.

- The high range is not quite as easy as some F tubas I have played, but it is more in-tune than a Besson 15" bell Eb.

- This thing is small and light!

Fit/finish:

- Lacquer seems nice. I don't see any stray solder blobs or anything like what are on my Schiller euph.

- Fifth valve linkage is quiet and fast, and seems nicer than I am accustomed to with Chinese rotary valves.

- Valves are very fast and air-tight. They feel just as nice as Yamaha valves. There are some sharp edges to be wary of on certain machined parts. Threads of the bottom valve caps and things like that are a bit rough. If I am not careful, I could see myself cross-threading the bottom valve caps. Upper valve caps are fine. The fake mother-of-pearl inlays look and feel a bit cheap.

- As a brand new tuba, there was bit of black gunk and some stray metal shavings/machining remnants in the instrument when I received it. I flushed it out in the bathtub with the detachable showerhead and that helped. I also sprayed the bathroom ceiling on accident, because a detachable showerhead is not like a waterhose and I forgot that.

Other stuff:

- There is a strange sympathetic resonance/after-ring that I am getting on a few pitches (D in the staff and G above it). It sounds close to my head and I can't detect it in recordings -- maybe some vinyl tubing on the bell will help. Really the only weird thing about the tuba.

- I am not having any of the ergonomics problems people talk about with this model. It is pretty comfortable to me. I played it today for a few hours and my wrist feels fine. Must be the way I hold it.

Overall very pleased. And now you can get your very own Schiller-maha version without doing a kinda-shady-feeling Western Union transfer to China like I did, for only a few hundred bucks more.

Sweet!
I concur with your assessment.
The valve cap threading leaves much to be desired, but is better than the threading on my much-older BMB. It has improved already with a cleaning and working it a bit.
I’m not experiencing the strange resonance - with or without the vinyl tubing I have on my bell. Is it from the bead soldering on the bell rim?
No ergonomic issues here, either, but have to lift it much higher off my lap than any other tuba due to its size.
Sounds like your fifth valve might be a bit better than mine. I’ll have to continue to invest time to improve mine. It isn’t terrible, but a little more sluggish than my B&S, Willsons, or other rotaries. Better than my Mack Brass cimbasso.

[arpthark]

This arrived today. It came with a foam body zipper case and a Bach 18-ish mouthpiece.



Initial impressions:

- Wow! This is a good-playing tuba (no, not just "for the money").

- This tuba can play in tune pretty well (alternate fingerings: 13 for top space G; 134 for Ab below the staff; 3rd valve for D's and A's; some others surely will arise the more I work with a tuner).

- The low range on this tuba is accessible, as following the reputation of the model it copies.

- While not as brilliant-sounding as a German F tuba, it still can get a pretty nice/punchy sound, reminiscent of a Besson 15" bell Eb (my other current bass tuba). I'd say the Besson has more character, but the Yamaclone definitely still sounds nice.

- The high range is not quite as easy as some F tubas I have played, but it is more in-tune than a Besson 15" bell Eb.

- This thing is small and light!

Fit/finish:

- Lacquer seems nice. I don't see any stray solder blobs or anything like what are on my Schiller euph.

- Fifth valve linkage is quiet and fast, and seems nicer than I am accustomed to with Chinese rotary valves.

- Valves are very fast and air-tight. They feel just as nice as Yamaha valves. There are some sharp edges to be wary of on certain machined parts. Threads of the bottom valve caps and things like that are a bit rough. If I am not careful, I could see myself cross-threading the bottom valve caps. Upper valve caps are fine. The fake mother-of-pearl inlays look and feel a bit cheap.

- As a brand new tuba, there was bit of black gunk and some stray metal shavings/machining remnants in the instrument when I received it. I flushed it out in the bathtub with the detachable showerhead and that helped. I also sprayed the bathroom ceiling on accident, because a detachable showerhead is not like a waterhose and I forgot that.

Other stuff:

- There is a strange sympathetic resonance/after-ring that I am getting on a few pitches (D in the staff and G above it). It sounds close to my head and I can't detect it in recordings -- maybe some vinyl tubing on the bell will help. Really the only weird thing about the tuba.

- I am not having any of the ergonomics problems people talk about with this model. It is pretty comfortable to me. I played it today for a few hours and my wrist feels fine. Must be the way I hold it.

Overall very pleased. And now you can get your very own Schiller-maha version without doing a kinda-shady-feeling Western Union transfer to China like I did, for only a few hundred bucks more.

Sweet!
I concur with your assessment.
The valve cap threading leaves much to be desired, but is better than the threading on my much-older BMB. It has improved already with a cleaning and working it a bit.
I’m not experiencing the strange resonance - with or without the vinyl tubing I have on my bell. Is it from the bead soldering on the bell rim?
No ergonomic issues here, either, but have to lift it much higher off my lap than any other tuba due to its size.
Sounds like your fifth valve might be a bit better than mine. I’ll have to continue to invest time to improve mine. It isn’t terrible, but a little more sluggish than my B&S, Willsons, or other rotaries. Better than my Mack Brass cimbasso.

Yeah, the factory contacted me and said that they ran out of fifth valve mechanisms and were going to put an "improved" fifth valve linkage on mine, FWIW.

Not sure what's up with the after-ring thing I'm getting. It might actually be a blob of machining gunk in a valve circuit. It improved after I cleaned it but I am still getting it a bit on D in the staff. Otherwise, tuba is great. Are your valve guides black plastic? I've never seen ones like that before. They look 3D printed or something.

[bloke]

I'm thinking that Yamaha reused the YEB-321 top-action valve block, when they began to build those instruments.

To me, it seems just a bit funny (funny-ironic) that a copy would feature the same valve block (as it was built from scratch, and could have been something else).

If it plays good, it plays good.

[arpthark]

I'm thinking that Yamaha reused the YEB-321 top-action valve block, when they began to build those instruments.

To me, it seems just a bit funny (funny-ironic) that a copy would feature the same valve block (as it was built from scratch, and could have been something else).

If it plays good, it plays good.

As far as aesthetics, this tuba and the original definitely leave something to be desired with all the non-coplanar twists and turns in the circuitry.

That makes sense then that it's based on a top action valve set. Kinda like those weird Kanstul things.