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jtm wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:09 pm I tried one at TMEA a few weeks ago -- amazing -- so somebody has them. I can justify one way less than Mark, so it didn't come home with me. Besides, my F is now good enough I can grow with it a while.

So, which of the 7 rotary F models that Miraphone sells now (maybe it's 4 models?) is the most like a Norwegian Star?

The Electra or the Firebird. The Firebird is probably the more similar of the two, but if I were shopping, I'd want to check out the newer Electra model.

LeMark wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:25 pm One of my favorite tubas of all time. I still regret not buying Mary ann's when she put it up for sale

A guy drove down from Phx to get it and was nearly peeing his pants at the purchase. I never saw anyone so happy ever before in my life! Its first owner, IIRC, was Scott Mendoker, meaning it was a stellar example even of an NStar. And I got it because of a WTB ad, just an offer from here basically, instead of from a FS ad. Maybe I'll get lucky again. I don't think I want the four valve version unless I could check for false tones on it; my current rotary has a completely usable false tone of Ab but I don't remember the NS having that. I should check my friend's, if he will let me touch it knowing he might have to use force to get it back.

Firebird was the only F I tried that I liked better than my MW 182, when I had that, but I never have gotten to try a Symphonie.

How many models of F tubas are there that don't feature a significantly sharp second space open c?

Other than a couple of pretty darn good Symphonie copies that I've recently played (albeit they still miss the mark, as far as actually being a Symphonie), this seems to be common to most all of them.

A sharp C - right there in the "cash register" - is just about as big a stumbling block (if not bigger) than a super flat third partial F or G on a B-flat or C tuba

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:08 pm How many models of F tubas are there that don't feature a significantly sharp second space open c?

Other than a couple of pretty darn good Symphonie copies that I've recently played (albeit they still miss the mark, as far as actually being a Symphonie), this seems to be common to most all of them.

A sharp C - right there in the "cash register" - is just about as big a stumbling block (if not bigger) than a super flat third partial F or G on a B-flat or C tuba

I can't speak to how many, but my current rotary F (and I'm only speaking for this individual tuba, and not the whole model) has a really good open C. And false tones. And a nice enough low C after I'm warmed up (so problems are me, not the tuba). I'm therefore likely to keep it until I have hold of something better. The Firebird I tried at TMEA was promising, and it felt great, but the room was way too loud to hear much, and I didn't play along with reference sounds or check it with a tuner.

(sorry, I've taken this far afield from WTB NStar)

All threads take excursions!!

I have said before that the "low C problem" on rotary F tubas is because it slots sharp. The second space one does too, but it's close enough that you can tell that's what's going on. The one below the staff is so sharp that you basically have to play a note that doesn't exist in order to get it. I found that when I had my MW 182, and thought it *extremely* odd that the designers did not and still have not bothered to fix it. Reminds me of why they kept medical interns working 36 hour days, at unimaginable cost to patients, because those who went before had to do that, so you guys don't get off the hook either.

Just for kicks I wrote that place in Latvia, and got a response that they have to check if they can get one, and what the latest price would be. So -- it was just an ad, not a tuba. And they asked if I needed a case, and I said no, especially since there is no way I'm going to buy a tuba from Latvia.

Sorry, I just saw this and it's already sold. Also expensive... But looks great!



https://hornguys.com/collections/whats- ... uba-used-1

Horn Guys apparently have a new one in stock (as of 3/6/23)...

bort2.0 wrote:Sorry, I just saw this and it's already sold. Also expensive... But looks great!



https://hornguys.com/collections/whats- ... uba-used-1

Long gone are the days when you could go to the distributor and play 5 or 6 of what you want and pick one out. I did that in lake Geneva with my last two major purchases. Maybe if you made a trip to Germany. One of these is probably the only other Eb that has my attention these days. Very nice.


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The Horn Guys always take great pictures. A lot of them too.

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:04 am All threads take excursions!!

I have said before that the "low C problem" on rotary F tubas is because it slots sharp. The second space one does too, but it's close enough that you can tell that's what's going on. The one below the staff is so sharp that you basically have to play a note that doesn't exist in order to get it. ...

Hmmm. My low C has decent resonance at (roughly) the right pitch. And it does at the fundamental (pedal C), too. But now that you add it's "so sharp", I notice there's a really strong resonance at ... wait for it ... D! It's there for all the similar tubing lengths -- 4, 1-3, 5-3. It's not a pretty resonance, but it's strong. If you wanted to play D that way, you could.

Here's the fun part: it doesn't behave harmonically. You can't play D an octave higher on 4th valve. And 1-4 doesn't make low C. If you add tubing a little at a time -- 4, 2-4, 1-4, 3-4 -- the pitch drops slowly, and 3-4 gets you a low C with a strong resonance and lousy tone.

It feels related to what happens when you blow across an empty 3 liter soda bottle and get a good note, then you squeeze the middle of the bottle and get a lower note. Some strange more complicated resonance mode is happening.

Anyway... my particular old Miraphone F has all the Cs decently in tune, and the pedal notes sound easily, and it has usable false tones (not that I would care if Mary Ann hadn't asked about F tuba false tones a while back), so I'll be holding on to it until I actually hold another that does as well. Another very similar old Miraphone F has a solid low C but open C in the staff is super sharp, so you can't tell by just looking at them or comparing specs.

Seems that if C in the staff is "super sharp" you could possibly put down 2nd valve and get that C a little better. I've done weirder things.

Or play it 3rd valve

If it actually is a node problem, I don't think 3rd valve is going to help because the node still won't be in the right place. ???

3rd is usually a little flatter than 1-2, depending on how you have your slides set up. It's frequently used as an alternate fingering if 1-2 is sharp

Seems like, in my experience, most horns made somewhere in or around Germany typically design slides so that 1+2 would actually be an alternate fingering to 3. Fingering charts in the USA do not reflect that philosophy.

matt g wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:03 am Seems like, in my experience, most horns made somewhere in or around Germany typically design slides so that 1+2 would actually be an alternate fingering to 3. Fingering charts in the USA do not reflect that philosophy.

I had an old Alexander fingering chart and it showed 3 as the default with 1+2 in parentheses.

In my research of Alexander F tubas, I saw a bunch of players playing everything 3 instead of 1&2 and I was confused. It’s making more sense now.

LargeTuba wrote:In my research of Alexander F tubas, I saw a bunch of players playing everything 3 instead of 1&2 and I was confused. It’s making more sense now.

My Willson Eb is that way for some of those combinations. E natural in the staff and C in most registers is better played 3rd. Seems to resonate better and right in tune no slide pulling at all. Runs sharp playing it 1&2.


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