TubaForum.net

I remember reading somewhere (probably on Facebook, but I don't really remember where) that Rex Martin acquired one of these not too far before he moved to Europe.

"one of these" = Besson F tuba

Edit again: it was in the "Harry Barlow and the British F Tuba" facebook group.

The only 3+1 compensating version I ever handled was owned by Jay Rozen (who now plays a Yamaha 621 as far as I recall from the last time we corresponded). The bell on it was larger—14 or 15 inches—like a 621.

The pics I’ve seen of versions with a 12” bell have all been 3+2 uncompensated Barlow F tubas.

Rick “the 621 is sure easier to play, and not too distant from the sound concept” Denney

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:56 am I'm thinking that the Besson three plus one compensating F tubas only have a 12-in bell. Is that correct? I'm thinking that one of the big Florida universities owned one in the past, and North Texas state owned one as well.
I might be mixing up years, but I thought that I saw a privately owned one at that big tube of shindig in Lexington Kentucky quite a few years ago, I seem to remember going out to a parking lot with an acquaintance and he was being shown one by someone else who had it in their car and was offering it for sale. I'm wondering if it was Rex who was looking at it.

My Boosey might have been less than 15", but iirc was at least around 14".

This begins to sound like an auction.. lol, but might 13 in be more accurate for the Besson?

FWIW, there's a 3-valve Besson Eb with a 12" bell that's been kicking around Facebook for a while, so it would probably make sense that the Fs also could get as small as that.

bloke wrote:This begins to sound like an auction.. lol, but might 13 in be more accurate for the Besson?

Not the one I saw. It gave the usual impression of a pre-Sovereign Eb Besson, which had a 15” bell.

Rick “not claiming any consistency across the breed” Denney

I have a pretty strong feeling that the bells of those things were smaller than 15 inches.

...OK...
Jonathan let me have a look at the Wessex - pre economic shutdown, which looked to me like to be nearly a complete replica. I just went over to his website and that Wessex bell diameter is 13 in. With all of the trends in the last couple of decades being to make bells wider, I have to believe that the fact that his replica has a 13-in bell points very strongly towards the original Besson also featuring a 13-in bell.

I'm also thinking that those student 6XX series B-flat tubas that were made on Edgware Rd. the last few years before the end - and actually quite a few years before that (and even with a .689"bore) - also featured 13 inch bell diameter.

Surely I'm not the only one on this site who has encountered some of those Besson 3+1 comp. F tubas...(??)

A 3 + 1 compensating system is de facto a six valve system, and - as small as those things were, my impression of them was that they were sort of an English style and F version of a French C tuba... and their tuning quirks went right along with that comparison/analogy, in my mind.

I think the 3+2 non-comps were closer to the French C tuba than the later compensators. Both share a similar French Besson ancestry.

Rick “suspecting only a few dozen of the 5-valve orchestral Fs were ever made” Denney

Rick Denney wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 11:18 am I think the 3+2 non-comps were closer to the French C tuba than the later compensators. Both share a similar French Besson ancestry.

Rick “suspecting only a few dozen of the 5-valve orchestral Fs were ever made” Denney

You're taking me a bit too literally, I suspect...

For sale in or trade in Germany:
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anz ... 1-223-9668

It is advertised as a Besson F tuba

@bloke is correct in his memory, the University of Miami owned one of the 4 valve compensating F's back when I was there in the 2000s. I have no idea if it's still owned by the university though. My memory was that the bell was smaller than the 15 inch bell on the 381 Eb I play now, but I didn't own a tape measure as an undergrad...

It was very responsive and had an intuitive low register, but the pitch was ghastly, requiring alternate fingerings on 3 different partials (A in the staff and C both in and above the staff were not usable without remedy). And even when I was able to wrangle it into concert pitch, my quintet was not a fan of the euphonium like sonority. If Wessex was able to remedy the intonation, it might be a nice horn for some situations.

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:56 am I'm thinking that the Besson three plus one compensating F tubas only have a 12-in bell. Is that correct? I'm thinking that one of the big Florida universities owned one in the past, and North Texas state owned one as well.
I might be mixing up years, but I thought that I saw a privately owned one at that big tube of shindig in Lexington Kentucky quite a few years ago, I seem to remember going out to a parking lot with an acquaintance and he was being shown one by someone else who had it in their car and was offering it for sale. I'm wondering if it was Rex who was looking at it.

daktx2 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 1:46 pm ...
It was very responsive and had an intuitive low register, but the pitch was ghastly....

Yep.

C J wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 1:10 pm For sale in or trade in Germany:
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anz ... 1-223-9668

It is advertised as a Besson F tuba

That particular one is like a cut down 983 Eb (four front action compensating valves). Those are other odd Besson F tubas from a completely different era.

A few years ago at a Tuba Christmas I got to see and hear, but not play, a Besson 4-valve compensating F. Interesting critter. The owner did confess to some intonation issues.

The Besson has a 13 3/8” bell.

...so we have yet another answer to the question posed in the thread caption.

I was pleased to learn (back when) that Wessex planned to introduce a modern version of the British F! I'm glad you've taken advantage of it. Now that you have lived with it for a while, I'd be curious to hear a thumbnail review of the case they're shipping it with. I have one of the original Bessons, which came to me in a very tired, Kaiser-sized gig bag. Better than nothing, but just. Assuming the old and new versions share enough architecture, I'd be tempted to inquire if they'd sell a case by itself. Thanks!

Alvin Hill wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:34 pm I was pleased to learn (back when) that Wessex planned to introduce a modern version of the British F! I'm glad you've taken advantage of it. Now that you have lived with it for a while, I'd be curious to hear a thumbnail review of the case they're shipping it with. I have one of the original Bessons, which came to me in a very tired, Kaiser-sized gig bag. Better than nothing, but just. Assuming the old and new versions share enough architecture, I'd be tempted to inquire if they'd sell a case by itself. Thanks!

It would be just a little bit too long, but not much...
Those little bitty yet .689" bore Boosey and Hawkes B-flat tubas - that were sold by the bucket loads in the 1980s by a New Jersey firm - were supplied with nice little Jakob Winter molded case. I saw one of those for sale somewhere - possibly on eBay via a prolific Michigan salvage instrument seller. What if you bought the tuba in the case, kept the case, and then sold the tuba?

Okay, I found it. The seller doesn't have a particularly good reputation for being responsive, but you could dig around, figure out their direct phone number in Grand Rapids, Michigan, call them, and ask them about the condition of that case.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/364191798528

Thanks very much!! The case looks pretty good. I'm trying to make contact. I actually pursued the possibility that Besson/Boosey may have sold a horn which shared a case (or near it) with their F. Mike Johnson, the custom Brit-tuba guy couldn't think of one when I contacted him. He may have been thinking in terms of an exact match. We'll see. In any case, it's a great lead!

Alvin, I shot you a message about the case. It's a very nice case from the little that I've used it.