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I'm truly embarrassed after having been shown that I obviously didn't consider some of the factors that would profoundly affect this operation.

bloke "Moreover, I got nuthin'..."

Done with soldering, and cleaned things up a bit better. The bow guards needed a dent machine and somebody else operating it, but they are solidly stuck on and look okay from a distance (a mile should do it).

I did spend some time with the magnet tool and worked what I could still reach a bit more with the dent rod. That extra bit when I was ready to be patient made a big difference, though it’s still nothing like smooth.

I cleaned up most of the solder joints and put an initial buff on what my buffing motor could reach (I’m using a tapered screw buff holder mounted on a 1875-rpm 1-hp motor and it has plenty of power but not much reach).

I need to rag it out to get rid of the mess the buffer won’t reach.

I’m still trying to decide if I want to just shoot some lacquer on it or strip the remaining lacquer off. The former would probably be less work.

Then I need to put some quality time into the valves.









Rick “progress” Denney

I actually used an air-powered die grinder with 2” Scotchbrite pads for that purpose. And also a fine mill smooth file.

But I did not want to invade the brass, so I was careful.

I’ll use it and the Foredom more when I try to buff down into the crannies that are difficult to rag. I have buffs that fit 1/8” and 1/4” collets, or the small scroll chuck on the Foredom.

Rick “lots of detail work ahead, within reason” Denney

local pickup Tampa (too far), but cheap spare parts...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115643600099

I actually have relatives in Tampa, and it’s tempting. The bottom bow isn’t any better, but the lead pipe looks a lot better. And braces, too.

Rick “will enquire” Denney

@Rick Denney

Like old-style King tubas that we all took for granted as being available for parts or restoration in perpetuity, these, too, are slowly disappearing. If I were you, at that price, I would jump on it. It is worth many hundreds of dollars more as a few small boxes of spares for you than as a tuba for someone else.

Also, complete disassembly and cleaning of everything will then allow you to gain TONS of experience with dent work, slide alignment, bell and branch work to something other than *your* tuba, and maybe once the bell and bottom bow have been cleaned up you might even find some small cracks to braze or patch.

This is a cheap gold mine for you.

Also, later on, you could restore it to like condition with your current one, select the one you like most, and sell the other for enough to pay for both of them and a steak dinner for you and Mrs. Genius.

I'm pretty sure that thing in Tampa is Chinese, but the parts should fit if you need them.

Note: I've been wrong before.

bloke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:25 pm I'm truly embarrassed after having been shown that I obviously didn't consider some of the factors that would profoundly affect this operation.

bloke "Moreover, I got nuthin'..."

This sign (known as a "dynamic message sign" though this particularly type is also known as a "variable message sign") comports with my own operational philosophy: If you have nothing to say, don't say it. But signs are now required to show travel times to some distant milestone as a default in the absence of specific incident or congestion-related information.

(The only thing difficult about DMS's--other than paying for them--is testing their communications interfaces and specification compliance. For that, substantial expertise is required, and I have plenty of scars to show from factory and field testing these things. The bad manufacturers hated me. My last act as a private consultant was a five-hour video deposition in a court case involving a batch of signs that failed those tests repeatedly and were subsequently replaced at the expense of the contractor.)

Rick "both messaging strategies are better than state DOT sloganeering, however" Denney

@Rick Denney

Some state peeps who view themselves as being clever with the changeable copy messages need to leave humor to the professionals.

bloke wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 5:10 pm local pickup Tampa (too far), but cheap spare parts...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115643600099

Yeah, it's Chinese--all the Sanders "Imperial" models were such. But it is a rip-off of a B&S 101.

The bottom bow is about as bad as the one on mine before repairs, though the dents on mine had sharper creases. The leadpipe might be a bit better. The fourth-valve branch is about the same as mine was before repair. The bell is much worse, but I wouldn't want to replace the bell in any case.

The only potential appeal is the valve stuff, which I might be able to use, though I have a strategy for dealing with the issues on this tuba. (Valve work like that is much closer to my skill set, too.)

Wade, all the advantages you cite would be true if I had a way to fetch it that wouldn't add hundreds of dollars. The family we have in that are would not be willing to store it indefinitely, and we've already visited Florida this year and won't be down there again in a car fore several more years, probably. But I'm still asking questions.

I wouldn't want to replace any big parts--my tuba was hand-hammered (and is now significantly more hand-hammered ) and want to keep that feature as a talking point.

(Edit: I think I need to add this--a beat-up Giardinelli/B&S/hand-made POS has a more interesting story to me than a pristine Chinese copy of same, even extending to the major parts. This won't be my principal instrument and the story is about 80% of the fun for me, even if the results I get are amateurish.)

Rick "not going into the business, heh" Denney

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:01 am @Rick Denney

Some state peeps who view themselves as being clever with the changeable copy messages need to leave humor to the professionals.

That's the sloganeering that we (sort-of) officially oppose. But state politicians will do what state politicians do.

Rick "the traffic pros are not the ones trying to be cute" Denney

If you were seeking some real fun, you could convert that 45-degree valve into a 5th valve, stick in a Tampa-jimbo valve below it as the new 1st valve, and look for a kaiser-bore skinny slide bow (for your main slide - to accommodate the geometric changes.

I'm guessing (??) your Hb has 5 rotors, so you already know how much fun it is to have access to nicely in-tune low E, E-flat, and D-flat pitches...

...but first - I suppose - you would like to concentrate on "road-worthiness".

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:23 am If you were seeking some real fun, you could convert that 45-degree valve into a 5th valve, stick in a Tampa-jimbo valve below it as the new 1st valve, and look for a kaiser-bore skinny slide bow (for your main slide - to accommodate the geometric changes.

I'm guessing (??) your Hb has 5 rotors, so you already know how much fun it is to have access to nicely in-tune low E, E-flat, and D-flat pitches...

...but first - I suppose - you would like to concentrate on "road-worthiness".

My Hirsbrunner does not have five rotors, and I don't think I've ever seen a HBS-193 that did. But it has an excellent low Eb on the alternative resonance, like most big tubas.

The only time I'm EVER tempted to play that low is when doubling the octave on concluding chords, but I've never really wanted to be that guy who plays everything down an octave just because he can. A fifth valve has some other advantages, of course, but I doubt I could exploit them commensurate with the risk and effort of adding it.

Rick "choosing his battles" Denney

yeah...I only play the ink...unless something absolutely screams out for some piano-left-hand-pinky pitch (often soft and final chords).

When sitting in with a band - or handed a little honorarium to cover in one, when a bands' tuba peeps have to miss a concert - I always go for the LOWER pitches in divisi passages. After all, it's a TUBA.

The quintet literature seems to feature more extended low range writing than does orchestral literature (whereby much of the tends-to-be-programmed "modern" orchestral literature seems to reach more upward than downward, but that's a TENDENCY and certainly NOT a rule).

(I recently posted a screen-shot of an excerpt which supports the tendency...)

A few months ago, I showed up and read some quintet tunes for a something-or-other (ok...it was a bunch of toot-'n'-scoot nursing home xmas things), and three of the tunes they pulled featured E-flats...
...I had brought my F tuba.

Rick Denney wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:31 am
My Hirsbrunner does not have five rotors, and I don't think I've ever seen a HBS-193 that did. But it has an excellent low Eb on the alternative resonance, like most big tubas.

Now you have, though it seems "obviously not factory":

https://www.baltimorebrasscompany.com/p ... -tuba.aspx

Your tuba actually looks pretty good, just fwiw...

=========================

on the "kaiser" topic...

It only makes sense that (though it IS known to be THE choice of Tubah Goddhh [pronoun]selves) Rick would like my Miraphone 98, as it is a hybrid combination of a kaiser body/bore and a Holton 345 bell profile.

..."playable in tune"...just an odd quirk regarding which most tubists are not particularly interested

==========================

on the "lotza valves" topic...

Seven valves only works on King pit model tubas - as is The Science (as the only one in existence is owned by a scientist).

cjk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:51 am

Rick Denney wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:31 am
My Hirsbrunner does not have five rotors, and I don't think I've ever seen a HBS-193 that did. But it has an excellent low Eb on the alternative resonance, like most big tubas.

Now you have, though it seems "obviously not factory":

https://www.baltimorebrasscompany.com/p ... -tuba.aspx

I've played that tuba, and I was counting only factory fifth valves. But that dependent fifth valve added nothing of value that I could determine.

Rick "never a fan of dependent fifth valves" Denney

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:12 am Your tuba actually looks pretty good, just fwiw...

=========================

on the "kaiser" topic...

It only makes sense that (though it IS known to be THE choice of Tubah Goddhh [pronoun]selves) Rick would like my Miraphone 98, as it is a hybrid combination of a kaiser body/bore and a Holton 345 bell profile.

..."playable in tune"...just an odd quirk regarding which most tubists are not particularly interested

==========================

on the "lotza valves" topic...

Seven valves only works on King pit model tubas - as is The Science (as the only one in existence is owned by a scientist).

In reverse order...

After the investment Fred made on that tuba, one should be surprised that he would not tout its wonders. He's a genius, but he's also human.

There is no question that I would like your Miraphone 98 (as was clear to me when I played it on the day you bought it). But I still like the Holton in some halls and the Hirsbrunner in other halls. The Hirsbrunner is more Alex 164 than Holton (and it is better in tune than either). More to the point, I already own the Hirsbrunner. I might have to wait another decade (in addition to the decade you waited) to get a Miraphone like yours at a similar price.

Finally, thanks. I think it will be good enough when I'm done that if I use it in band, it won't make the section look bad.

Rick "whose section now has a strong player allowing me think more like a section player" Denney

If you just want the tuba to look a little better for the sake of the band shouldn't you just get out what's left in your can of bondo? Today there are paints that astonishingly resemble polished metals. Nikolas even has additives for their clear lacquer for this.