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I can't believe I'm actually thinking of playing a King over an adams, but the money I sell the adams for could fund 2 projects I have been wanting to do. (One is classic car related and the other is music related) I also have the packer 274 still, and it deserves some love and respect. Oh yeah, I have a 3 valve compensating besson. Did I mention my main instrument is TUBA???

here's the pics. My work isn't perfect, but I made it work with the parts I had on hand.

The valve I used is a smaller bore than the tubing I used for it, so I had to get creative in adapting it up then back down.

I'm glad I rebuilt the 4th valve circuit. Never liked the way it was from the factory.

here's the pics

I like this horn, Mark! Great work!

The 3+1 Blaikley compensating thing is a bad habit, and is to baritones/euphoniums as compensating double horns are to full double horns.

If they had put as much research into front-action 4+1, or 4+2, or 4+3 (manual compensating) euphoniums/baritones, they could have come up with something better, the pistons wouldn't weigh as much...and both thumbs would have still been available for truly dialed-in-tuning triggers.

As the "automatic" compensating system is set up, the only slide that can possibly be reached on-the-fly is the main slide: with a Rube Goldberg-esque super-clunky/excessively-heavy device, and only able to address sharp pitches (and none which are flat).

Further, why not make more of the euphoniums/baritones (via re-wrapping) longer (such as the overall length of my currently-owned Blaikley) so they don't have to be held up in the air, and can rest in one's lap (as can most tubas) ?

My last two (current and previous) euphoniums have been Blaikley compensating, because "the best there currently are" are set up in this manner... ...oh, and shoehorning the Blaikley system onto the front of the instrument doesn't make it any better.

After reading this, there will surely be criticism and mocking, because I suggested as many as 6 or 7 valves and probably 1 or 2 fine-tuning triggers.
again: Tuning standards are far more stringent than they were when the Blaikley system was devised. I walk into high school band rehearsals today whereby the tuning standards are right up there with those of some of the finest college symphonic bands of past decades.

Here (pictured first) is the most technically modern oboe I could find from the very same era as the invention of the Blaikley System.
It's remarkably sophisticated for the mid-1870's, but no regular/working oboist today would choose it over their own (as a 2023 oboe is shown below it).

Thanks Wade, it's not as pretty as your projects, but it's a fun doublers horn for a tuba player. Even after all of these years of compensating euphoniums, my pinkie is still better than my left hand

Also...it's taller than than my 3+1 horns, and as tall as I am, that's nice

@Mark

If you didn't get the point of my rant...

I LIKE WHAT YOU DID, THERE.

Thanks! These kings aren't real popular, even as school instruments and I just don't understand that. Schools will buy 100 Yamaha 321's before they will ever consider the king, and I think these are better instruments

Undecided if I'm going to sell anything. I sold my piggy and I regret it to this day. The adams is special, but it's more horn than I need or even deserve.

They also buy those delicate Yamaha marching mellophones when King marching mellophones nearly play in tune well enough to actually be considered to be musical instruments, put out twice as much sound, and also a better sound.

Band directors are just as gullible as everyone else.

One school district I teach for, the directors are hamstrung by the district and the fine arts director. Yamaha is the only thing they will provide, so if they want something else, they have to use booster money (same one that bought those Packer tubas from you a few years ago)

Video of the valve action

LeMark wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 6:54 pm Thanks! These kings aren't real popular, even as school instruments and I just don't understand that. Schools will buy 100 Yamaha 321's before they will ever consider the king, and I think these are better instruments

Undecided if I'm going to sell anything. I sold my piggy and I regret it to this day. The adams is special, but it's more horn than I need or even deserve.

Great job.

I owned a King 2280 before and liked it. I think the reason it does not do better is that it looks awkward compared to a Yamaha 321. Honestly, I had a couple of compensating euphoniums and they were always ergonomically challenged to me. That was a big part of me selling them and coming back to tuba.

That's one reason I modified the 4th valve circuit. I understand why they made the "reaching up to God" part of the circuit, but it looked dumb and got in the way of the valve cap. I like it so much better now

Got new valve buttons today. Much better

How do those new finger buttons sound?

I believe I prefer the sound of silver finger buttons, just fwiw, but abalone m.o.p. dampens the sound too much...

...Also, I begin thinking about this song verse, instead of the music I'm supposed to be playing:

O, some folks boast of quail on toast,
Because they think it's tony;
But my tom-cat gets nice and fat
On hunks of abalone.

Sounds the same. Looks better. The old ones looked like trash. Can't have that

As small as something like finger buttons are... I think they can make or break the whole experience. And come on, out of all parts on the horn, these are just about THE most used.

Nice work Mark!

Besides ergonomics and tuning, what do you like better about the King? Or is it more "not worse" than "better"? Didn't read everything, maybe you've already 'splained.

Yeah...

...I am making fun of my own finger button fetish.

bloke wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 1:36 pm Yeah...

...I am making fun of my own finger button fetish.

I had a tuba once that I pretty much hated playing, because I hated the gig bag and hated getting it out/putting it away/carrying it around. And after that much and no time/money/patience for a new gig bag... I was just kind of fed up with dealing with it.

Looking back (and listening to a recording I found recently)... I think now I MUCH better understand the few things I didn't like about the tuba, and well, know better how to deal with it and what to ignore. And knowing the never-again-low-price I paid for it.... oh f---, I should have kept it.

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 1:15 pm


Besides ergonomics and tuning, what do you like better about the King? Or is it more "not worse" than "better"? Didn't read everything, maybe you've already 'splained.

Here's the highlights.

1. The quality to cost ratio is correct, I've never been into expensive instruments, so buying the adams was out of character for me

2. Yeah the pinkie 4th valve is huge for me

3. It's taller than a normal Euph, which is great for me

4. Intonation is surprisingly good. The adams is a bit better, but I'm really impressed by it

5. The valves are short and quick. Much better than almost all compensating euphoniums, with of course the exception of my Short action Adams, and this one is a fraction of the cost.

6. I like unique instruments, and this one I can take pride in because it's built instead of bought

Getting back to the main topic, I'm always interested to see a successful non-Blaikley system fully chromatic euphonium.

===================
your sidebar topic: instruments we shouldn't have sold

The C tuba I just sold was the easiest to play tuba in C that I've ever played in my life. There's no way I would have traded it for any other. That having been said, had I kept it, I would have just kept playing it and only messed around with the B-flat tuba. The whole idea of the B-flat tuba is to find a way to keep myself engaged and interested in playing the tuba, because I've been doing it for so friggin' long.

I don't play as well as Jeff Anderson, but Jeff Anderson has a really nice pt6 that he's used all these years. I think he just bought a new Nirschl yorkophone two or three years ago, and he told me the only reason was the same sort of reason that I discussed in the previous paragraph. I have to believe that it's not nearly as easy to play as his pt6.

LeMark wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 6:54 pm
Undecided if I'm going to sell anything. I sold my piggy and I regret it to this day. The adams is special, but it's more horn than I need or even deserve.

Um, the Star is more tuba than I need or deserve, and look what I just spent to get it back. I'd say, don't sell the Adams. You never know how things will change.

Oh, and, a 2280 was the first euph I had. I sold it because I had to reach around and play the 4th valve with my left hand because my right pinky didn't reach. That's why there are different wraps out there, and I'm best off with a compensator if I want four valves.

Gaak cat will not let go of me and it is damn hard to type with a cat on my right wrist.

I doubt it euphoniums will become the world's reserve currency, and the amount of silver in that bell still isn't very much, but I wouldn't be surprised if by this time next year dollars fall to 50% - yet again - of their current worth. Our rulers are mostly looking for us too suffer, surrender our property, and hopefully end up not existing anymore. A strong dollar doesn't exactly support their agenda.

"There goes bloke turning everything into politics again".

No. I'm offering specific advice to Mark to hold on to stuff that other people value and to try to get rid of as many (worthless and more worthless every day) dollars or things that represent dollars, because dollars are nothing but butt wipes.

To me, swapping a euphonium for dollars is like swapping it for ice cubes that are to be stored in your stove... unless you immediately take those dollars and purchase ammo.

I wouldn't consider musical instruments to be a particularly good investment, but - again - they are better than dollars and the really really good fiddle market seems to always do pretty well.