like a rock

[bloke]

OK...I still find that to be an odd analogy, but I'm chalking it up to a lack of "getting it" - on my part.

Most (a majority of) repair tools can last a lifetime.

Some fabricating tools (certainly not all) need to be occasionally cleaned, sharpened, re-calibrated, rebuilt, or (a few) discarded and replaced.

Whether a $40,000 tuba's 6/4 bell mandrel made in Japan, or a $17,000 tuba's bell mandrel fabricated in Europe, both are costly, both require a bit of maintenance, and even an $11,000 6/4 tuba's bell mandred made in China is not inexpensive (by most of our individual budgets' standards)...

...but this reply probably only serves to convince you (and others) that I'm not "getting" the analogy.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[bloke]

I'm not referring to Chevy trucks, and I'm not referring to the weight of Swiss-made instruments.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[Sousaswag]

It’s too bad. I’d still pay more for European-made Yorkophones were I interested (I’m not).

The influx of the Chinese stuff has been GREAT for buyers. However, as a frequent seller of tubas in the past, the really nice stuff, regardless of how they play, has really taken a hit. It’s hard to believe what was worth $12K a few years ago is now worth maybe $8K (ish) now.

I remember a year or two ago when Dillon’s had that 6450/2 for sale for like $12K. Regardless of the caliber of that instrument, I thought that was an absolute steal. Same with that HB I had a little while ago that Dillon’s sold for like $8K. They’re worth much more to a lot of people. But, to a big box store, they’re just not.

[bloke]

The low 3rd partial (with many/most of the tubas of that key and config) seems to be a tiresome/recurring theme...

...and most of the B-flats of that shape/size as well.

non-starters for me:
- big fat C tubas which require me to play G at the bottom of the staff any way other than "no valves down"
- F tubas which require me to play 2nd-space C any way other than "no valves down"
- fifth partial pitches (any type of tuba) too low to favor in tune (and/or/including a #1 slide which won't allow for tuning of the [valves] 1 and 1-2 fifth partial pitches)

bloke "Tuba playing should be FUN, and not alternate-fingering drudgery."

[peterbas]

.

[matt g]

Considering the handmade nature of some horns, I still think the price tag is relatively cheap.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[peterbas]

.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[bloke]

I could go into what I'm having to deal with - this week - with some designed-several-decades-ago gimmick sousaphone pistons - pistons which are not defective from longterm wear or consumer abuse) fabricated in the last year or two, educators believe in their voodoo, dealers pay $10,000 apiece for these sousaphones, and some stuff was done to these pistons - at the factory (as an attempt to make them go up and down consistently) - that is reminiscent of stuff that one might imagine would be done in the back of a combo store (by someone barely qualified to install strings on a guitar).

It's happened. The cheapest acceptable import manufacturer's products now exceed the build quality of the revered domestic make...THE Sousaphone-of-Sousaphones is now a non-working mockup of itself.

machine accuracy...
This was the thing that the west still had the drop on, even though consumers really don't seem to appreciate or understand this (as long as an instrument has a really snazzy polish job) but that advantage has left the North American continent, so how soon will it also leave the European continent?

Intonation characteristics mentioned in my previous post...
I'm not sure how many people notice or appreciate those things in an instrument, either... so whatever on that as well.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[bloke]

I may be wrong, but I've heard from quite a few different sources (who speak as if they know...??) that one of the European-made 6/4 things features South American machine parts.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[bloke]

I sell some stuff made overseas. I don't sell it aggressively. I do other stuff... several other things, and really digging in and selling these things aggressively would take away from the fun of doing the other things. I sell stuff that's good enough so that I can drop ship it from the warehouse without having to send it here first, unbox it and fix it. I don't have time for all that. There's actually one tuba that they make that I would love to own (playing characteristics that very much appeal to me, along with build quality that impresses me), but that would be one tuba too many for me, and I already own several. I don't like the idea of owning tubas just because I like them. I need to own them because I use them. I also don't have time to BS people who bought some of it to explain why it's not working and why it's their fault that it is not working. Something that goes along with my blunt online persona is a little bit of a conscience. When I was a little kid I got whippings and verbal shamings, and I guess some of it stuck.