TubaForum.net

tobysima` wrote: ↑Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:42 pm

jtm wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:21 pm You might still post a “want to buy” ad for a Mirafone 186/188 5V CC, or similar, with your price limit, and see what comes up.

For example, I might offer my lovely Musica-branded B&S 5V CC for $3000 or less. It's not a 186, but it's about the same size, well made, good rotary valves, and very easy to play in tune, so it might address your problems. You'll probably get suggestions like that.

I'll definitely talk to my teacher about that tuba.

For that price, I would go with the Musica. These horns are well made and sound very good, large enough for ensemble and can be very nimble for solo playing. Years ago, I was playing in a band beside someone playing a Musica and had only good things to say about it. I heard her play the Wilder Effie Suite in recital on this horn and it was excellent.

tobysima` wrote: ↑Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:34 pm
I do currently have an M&M, and I am not satisfied with it. The sound is fine, but the tuning is AWFUL. I figured that since Schiller carries the EXACT same instrument, that I shouldn't trust them either. I trust Wessex and Mack, since I have studied with people who have ties to the companies, but I'm not sure about which bell size would fit me better. I do want to be able to drag the horn through a tuba performance major.

What Model is your M&M? Unless I missed something in this or another post, most are assuming your horn is a M&M JinBao 186 Clone like the Wessex Mahler or the Mack 410. I do know that M&M has imported other design 5V CC horns in the past (unsure Jinbao or otherwise) with reported intonation issues. Although I totally take your word for the intonation issues, If your M&M is a Jinbao 410 (186 clone) it is surprising it deviates from that observed with most other 410s, even considering the possibility of M&M and Schiller having an inferior product.

I know a grad student who swears by the big Eastman 836, uses it for orchestral and wind ensemble stuff while he's working on his master's in performance. If you're considering chinese, Eastman should not be overlooked. Just be sure to demo the horn before you commit to it

<sidebar>

Regardless of the care taken to assemble instruments at any particular factory, SOME models (from any factory) are going to - acoustically - be better than others.

I don't recommend EVERY model of instrument (and not even some that - were I to recommend them - I could sell a BUNCH of them) that is offered (even when VERY well built) by companies for which I'm a dealer...because I can make it just fine without those sales, I don't like making after-sales bull$h!t excuses for stuff that is difficult to play (ex: in tune), and (again) my ego is somewhat large (over-inflated?) so I prefer that stuff that I sell (instruments/services) all be thought of very well.

That having been said, I've played some (from Chinese factories, other than those from where I receive new instruments that I choose to sell) shiny-yet-poorly-assembled (worse than some of the "franken-tubas" I've seen) new tubas (though they were mechanical and fit/finish nightmares) that offered pretty darn good resonance and intonation. ie. They COULD HAVE POSSIBLY BEEN good instruments, but (with such low-grade overall build integrity) there is no feasible way to upgrade them into usable (at least not "usable by *ME") instruments.

That having been said, there are some other (European and American) makes of instruments that I avoid buying for resale, due to (not so much build-quality, but usually) intonation/response issues-related problems...and many others will rave and wax eloquent over those makes/models...so let people buy those particular makes/models (which shall remain anonymous) from people other than myself.
____________________________________
*I can "get around" the tuba pretty well...but - when I'm "aware of" an instrument that I'm using (pulling my attention away from the music) that set of distractions measurably lowers the quality of my efforts.

</sidebar>

Worth wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:18 am

tobysima` wrote: ↑Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:34 pm
I do currently have an M&M, and I am not satisfied with it. The sound is fine, but the tuning is AWFUL. I figured that since Schiller carries the EXACT same instrument, that I shouldn't trust them either. I trust Wessex and Mack, since I have studied with people who have ties to the companies, but I'm not sure about which bell size would fit me better. I do want to be able to drag the horn through a tuba performance major.

What Model is your M&M? Unless I missed something in this or another post, most are assuming your horn is a M&M JinBao 186 Clone like the Wessex Mahler or the Mack 410. I do know that M&M has imported other design 5V CC horns in the past (unsure Jinbao or otherwise) with reported intonation issues. Although I totally take your word for the intonation issues, If your M&M is a Jinbao 410 (186 clone) it is surprising it deviates from that observed with most other 410s, even considering the possibility of M&M and Schiller having an inferior product.

It is a large piston CC tuba with a 17.5" bell. Like the Schiller piston CC "American" model.

Nemo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:58 pm I know a grad student who swears by the big Eastman 836, uses it for orchestral and wind ensemble stuff while he's working on his master's in performance. If you're considering chinese, Eastman should not be overlooked. Just be sure to demo the horn before you commit to it

That's fair. I do want to go and just play a lot of horns and pick one. Wessex has been recommended to me a LOT.

[/quote]

It is a large piston CC tuba with a 17.5" bell. Like the Schiller piston CC "American" model.
[/quote]

Ah, that is not the 186 copy then (186 is a rotary.) Consider the 186 copy because you may be delighted with it.

tobysima` wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:40 am

It is a large piston CC tuba with a 17.5" bell. Like the Schiller piston CC "American" model.

This makes much more sense.
You sound like you have the fire. I wish you all the fortune finding and acquiring the right horn to take things to the next level.
I agree with others that whatever you get at this stage may not be your forever horn. It should, however, be enjoyable and allow you to progress and rise above. I give you credit for picking the brains of the folks here, your ability to network, ask intelligent questions and listen will take you far

Worth wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:39 am

tobysima` wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:40 am

It is a large piston CC tuba with a 17.5" bell. Like the Schiller piston CC "American" model.

This makes much more sense.
You sound like you have the fire. I wish you all the fortune finding and acquiring the right horn to take things to the next level.
I agree with others that whatever you get at this stage may not be your forever horn. It should, however, be enjoyable and allow you to progress and rise above. I give you credit for picking the brains of the folks here, your ability to network, ask intelligent questions and listen will take you far

Thank you. I love tuba more than anything so I want to make my dreams reality. I do want to have a horn I can further progress on, and one that plays in tune!

If this is the model I am thinking of (large 4/4 to small 5/4 piston CC), I had heard that cutting about 3 inches off each side of the third slide, and maybe trimming some others, fixes most of the pitch issues. When you are warmed up, go up and down the tuba with a tuner. Look for alternate fingerings. See if there is a common ground in the problem notes that points to one valve. Maybe the whole tuba is just too high or too low and needs a main slide extension/cutting. $100-$200 of the right repairs may make this a totally different instrument.

I've had GREAT results with the Wessex. I have, I think, 9 or 10 students and players in my groups playing them; I have 2 myself (Linz & Prokofiev). IM me privately for more info. I'll be happy to help you with this.