TubaForum.net

Is Buddy Ray Santana (first cousin of the guitar guy) referring to that harsh/blatty/blasty sound...??

If "yes". In the past, I limited the use of that effect for when
- all the brass were playing at fff
- all the percussion were playing at fff

Since that time, I've decided that - even though it sort-of requires practicing it to be able to do it - I just don't ever NEED to do that, I NEVER received compliments for doing it, and (superb recording engineer, who regularly recorded me) *Jamey Lamar ( https://www.facebook.com/jamey.lamar ) once said to me (paraphrased, but all this specific content), "You know, I record some big-budget/full-time orchestras, and most all of their tuba players seem to like to make this really ugly sound - in the low range - when things get really loud. I've always been pleased that you don't do that, because the brass chords sound so much better. Is that something that they do on purpose, or is is something that they aren't able to avoid?"



(Jamey was a baritone horn player, when in school.)

summary: I did some of that crap a couple of decades ago, but (I believe) learned, and became smarter.

exception: (yet NOT tuba)
When playing the cimbasso, EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE (on CERTAIN individual chords - certain places in "pops" orchestral arrangements, and when covering 4th trombone in a big band), I mash the gas pedal to the floor. That having been said, the sound - with the cimbasso redlining - "stays together", the music director smiles, and I actually do - occasionally - receive compliments for that.

I've ALSO noticed that - when tuba quartets/tuba ensembles do that crap, any POSSIBILITY of making those (already too low tessitura/voiced) chords resonate (as chords) is then totally out the window - whereby any potential chords come off as well-timed grunts.

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* http://artmusicrecording.com/jamey-lamar

all right... I've resisted reading or participating in this thread because I'm afraid I'm part of the guilty sect.

I have an Eb york monster frankentuba. With some rare exceptions in certain rooms I would call the tone spread, fuzzy, or... flabby.

At times I dont mind it, and other times it drives me up the freaking wall. I dont think this is just the sound of a 100 year old tuba, but I'm not sure what to do about it. More and more I'm leaning toward buying a Norwegian star.

give it a listen. I wish it was better. GAAAH I'm doing a recital in two days on this horn.

That type of sound isn't deserving of any criticism.

Sounds great.

Thanks, maybe flabby is the wring term, but I hear a layer of fuzz in there. Maybe it's not as bad as I think. I'm going to be playing a norwegian Star at the army workshop, so let's see if that satisfies my ears.

I hear a layer of fuzz in there

background...not so much as to distract.
I'm sure you can mess with your chops, or laugh later - having found something buzzing in your garage-made tuba - and eliminate that.

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2024 5:55 pm

I hear a layer of fuzz in there

background...not so much as to distract.
I'm sure you can mess with your chops, or laugh later - having found something buzzing in your garage-made tuba - and eliminate that.

I've checked it for leaks, the valve section doesn't have that many miles on it since Andersons rebuilt it, I've run a borascope through it to look for blobs of solder, I'm not sure what else I can do. After this weekend I guess I can take it up to @UncleBeer
and see if his fancy computer probe thingy can find anything.

It's a very small part of what I hear on the recording.

Idk, I kinda like it flabby

Anywho, back to tuba sound, this was the first recording that came to mind when I thought of “the sound”


Wish I could listen to him play this live or on modern recording equipment

Love that, but ... what is "tuba"? This is a "criticism" that I as a vulgarian often have with the really fine players one hears: they seem a lot more interested in the high range, and the low end is just something that they have to get through. Why tuba?

Here's a skilled player, François Thuillier, who brings out some substance on the bottom of an F tuba. I wish he'd do one of those Bachs, but evidently not his thing. This is a big F, of course.


What I notice about both is that they are kind of easy on the tuba - they don't try to honk the stuffing out of it. Does that make them flabby? Nah.

[edit -- OK, "honk" is obviously not talking about what you'd expect anyway, but how about putting it this way - they don't fill it up. They don't make the tuba sing, they just give it something to sing about. /edit ]

.

Am I wrong, or is that sort of thing referred to as "beatbox" (except for the fact that he's not using the entire beatbox vocabulary, which includes the use of vocal cords and other sounds?)

I don't like to pigeon hole players - based on the videos they like to put out for people to hear. I absolutely have to believe that he doesn't ~only~ play that style.

If he is François Thuillier, there are some other examples on youtube. For solo tuba, I guess that may very well be pretty much what he does. (Makes about as much sense as anything. I mean ... tuba solo, yay.) In ensemble performance, not so much of that. The sound though generally comes out the same - full, but not overbearing or edgy, and all tuba. That's what I'm talking about.

The other guy, I wish there were more to hear.

He does that VERY well...
(I personally believe that) to do that well, a player also needs to be able to have solid command of basic/"regular"(??) techniques.

I found a song about F.T.U.B.S.A.

@BRS

Besides those tonal characteristics you outlined, are "flabby attacks" also be part of the formula?

I do chat with some of my betters (email: ...jokes, "did you see what so-and-so did?", whatever) and one of them and I have discussed how much MORE accuracy is required to play (at least) really big B-flat tubas (vs. C) and how careful/accurate we must be to avoid "bbbrrrvv" attacks (when playing big B-flats).

I didn't read all of this, but there are some tuba players that I don't really enjoy listening to. Sometimes it's the sound itself being overly splatty and blatty, and others I think are so harshly articulated, and yet others are so full of schtick, I just don't enjoy their solos.

Talking about pro-level players, all of whom are incredibly talented and far better than I will ever be. We all can't like everything.