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Re: Describe the French C tuba
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:26 pm
by donn
Snake Charmer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:55 pm
The french Saxhorn is slightly different to the French C Tuba, and most significant a bit slimmer in the tubing. Doesn*t matter if built in C or Bb, as there were both tunings common in the older days. But even now you can buy a C/Bb saxhorn (with in insertion piece) from Couesnon.
The Willson Willsax and the Courtois 366 are some type of hybrid: with four compensating valves they are for the player not willing to adapt to the old french fingering system, but they offer the stuffiness in the region when the fourth valve is used in combinations. With the french system you can play the whole low octave with a maximum of three valves at a time, so resistance is low and sound is open.
Wessex wrote:
Unlike French tubas of old where the 3rd valve added a 2+3 combination (major 3rd, or 4 semitones), the 3rd valve of the Wessex French tuba adds a more conventional 1+2 combination (minor 3rd, or 3 semitones). This avoids the complication of having to learn a new fingering system
...
Valves: 6 piston valves (regular lengths 1-4), flat tone 5th (adjustable to flat ½ tone), 6th valve puts down into F
Is that close enough? I can see some ways to get close on the low end - D would be better 2-3-4-5, but 2-5-6 would be just a little sharp, and Gb is sharp at 2-4. But what I come up with seems like a rather awkward fingering pattern, in terms of running around the scale down there.
[ edit ] The 1/2 step 5th option yields near perfect three valve combinations, if my calculation approximates reality, but probably no easier to play. D would be 3-5-6 [ /edit ]
iattp's Wessex sure sounds fine, though.
Re: Describe the French C tuba
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 1:54 am
by Snake Charmer
Yes, I understand Jonathan and the most of the brass world to think of the French C tuba as "another horn with vour valves and now two more". But you have think it the other way. It is best to have as less valves as possible in use at a time. In this way the long (four half-steps) third valve makes sense. In this setup the fifth valve is best used as a longer half-step for 45 (Gb) and 56 (E). E can also be played 34 with the long third.
I admit I never tried the original valve setup of my Wessex after learning the fingerings on my 1940 Courtois. Getting used to the long third valve I found easy, and in a lot of pieces it comes very handy for playing fast.
Re: Describe the French C tuba
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 2:53 am
by donn
Just imagining how that would work, I can come up with a pattern that has less skipping around, I mean the valve combinations from one to the next use more of the same valves. So that's good.
How do you get D? 36 looks a bit sharp, and I have to go to 4 valves to get any closer.
Re: Describe the French C tuba
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 4:20 am
by Snake Charmer
For me 36 works fine on both horns. To get it slightly lower 256 works well (5 pulled out for a longer half-step). Db is 46 (slightly high, but OK) or 136 (perfect).
Here you can look for my proved way of playing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sljgjXNUo9Y
Living with the Courtois 166 Bb Saxhorn is sometimes hard: the fingering is the same but without valve number five
Re: Describe the French C tuba
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2024 11:44 am
by Franz
I purchased the Wessex French tuba in November 2021. I've been looking forward to it for a while because I wanted an instrument that would allow me to play the bass clef parts with the same positions I use to play the treble clef euphonium . I also adopted the original configuration with the third slide of two tones and the 5th of 1/2 tone. Compared to the euphonium the low range is very easy and open, it's a shame it hasn't received a favorable response in the bands I play in, timbre distinct from the euphonium and too small to compare with the double bass tubas, I still played it in a couple of concerts with very favorable results: I really enjoy playing it.