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There are exceptions and all sorts of disciplines, including people in sports who do things nutty ways but do them really well in their nutty ways. There are two ways to look at that: one is to say that it works for them, and the other way to look at it is that since they can already do something better than almost everyone else with a handicap of doing it in a difficult way, how much better could they do it doing it in an easy way.

C J wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 2:16 pm Because NiekH is not able to PM I made the post in Dutch, English (google translate) is below.

Je ademsteun kun je ontwikkelen door onder andere deze oefening.
Je gaat op een stoel zitten en laat je armen langs je lichaam de onderkant van de zitting vastpakken.
Dan adem je uit. Als je uitgeademd hebt dan span je je armen aan zodat je jezelf in de zitting trekt.
Als je de armen aangespannen hebt adem je in.
Je merkt (als je het goed doet) dat je buik uitzet. Houd dit 3 seconden aan. Adem dan weer (gecontroleerd) uit. Als je dit een paar keer gedaan hebt kun je het ook eens doen zonder de zitting vast te pakken, maar juist je euphonium.


Als jij het bent op de foto van je avatar, dan zou ik iets rechterop gaan spelen (je kijkt nu naar beneden waardoor je je strottehoofd afknijpt)

Met vriendelijke groet,
CJ
Zeijen


You can develop your breath support through this exercise, among other things.
You sit on a chair and let your arms grab the bottom of the seat at your sides. Then you exhale. When you have exhaled, tighten your arms so that you pull yourself into the seat. When you have your arms tightened, you breathe in. You notice (if you do it right) that your belly expands. Hold for 3 seconds. Then exhale again (controlled). Once you have done this a few times, you can also do it without grabbing the seat, but rather your euphonium.

If it's you in the picture of your avatar, I'd play a little straighter (you're now looking down and pinching your larynx) Sincerely,
CJ
Zeijen

Thanks! i will definitely try this out when i get back home.

as far as me in the picture. That was taken on a christmas market (charles dickons) and i didn't have glasses there yet so i had to sort of bend down to see what is was playing. tho i am noticing that besides that my posture isn't great.

Richard III wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 8:13 am The best teachers I ever had played something and then told me to immitate the sound. Get that sound in my head. For me that really worked.

Next topic is posture. I see even professional players with poor posture and believe me, you can hear it. There is a lack of resonance, plus the breathing is inhibited. In my community band, it is even worse. There are players basically playing bent over to reach the horn laying in their lap. Never will that work. Think about it. Think about singing, upright posture, full breath, easy exhalation and full sound.

yes i can refer to this aswell. i always used to lay kinda backwards on my chair with my euphonium leaning on my lap with rehearsels/ practice etc..
since a few month i have started to work on this and i have to say that i does really work. especially with breathing in general and i always had (still have a little) delay while projecting a note, and sitting straight with my chin straight up does help a lot with that.

peterbas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 4:55 pm

Richard III wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 8:13 am The best teachers I ever had played something and then told me to immitate the sound. Get that sound in my head. For me that really worked.

Next topic is posture. I see even professional players with poor posture and believe me, you can hear it. There is a lack of resonance, plus the breathing is inhibited. In my community band, it is even worse. There are players basically playing bent over to reach the horn laying in their lap. Never will that work. Think about it. Think about singing, upright posture, full breath, easy exhalation and full sound.

Does Mr Baadsvik lack resonances? He bends over quite a lot.
What do athletes do after finishing, they bend over to breath easier.

Athletes bend over because they are tired. Bending over doesn't free the lungs to breath better. As for the artist, here's a video. Does he look relaxed to you?

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Have you met this man personally?

He's quite tall with a very long torso. He may not need access to every single cubic centimeter of lung capacity of which he could otherwise access. My personal lung capacity is large, which has tended to lead me into non-consideration of proper breathing techniques when playing, and - thus - I tend to find a need from time-to-time to circle back around and reinforce proper breathing techniques every so often.
He may (simply) feel comfortable playing that way and may still have plenty of air to play the way he chooses to play. Something else to consider is that he plays mostly/overwhelmingly solos - many of which are special unpublished arrangements for his personal repertoire, whereby he's deciding on all the phrasing and doesn't have to phrase with anyone else other than perhaps his accompanist - whereby he will ask the accompanist to phrase with him, so it's not like when we are sitting with three trombonists who all need to phrase with us, or when we have some really long exposed drone pitch underneath some soft woodwinds or something and it sounds much better to not break that pitch and is less musically distracting to sustain it throughout the entire length of time that it's marked and in written down music in our orchestra parts or band parts or whatever. (ex: sustained B-flat in Symphonic Metamorphosis).
Circling back to discussing this specific person, when he plays, he looks to me like he's trying to shrink himself down to fit the size of his tuba. Although you won't see me hanging my hand around this way or that as he does (which I'm not criticizing), I tend to do some of the same things (leaning forward somewhat) when playing my F tuba, because it's a bit too small for me. I lean forward to use up some of my size in order to fit myself to the instrument. I don't need all of my air to play that instrument, because it doesn't require anywhere close to all of my air. It's so much easier to play and requires so much less effort/air compared to my very large contrabass tuba. Euphonium would be sort of the next example, except I'm able to cradle that with my left arm and sit up straight and play it. I never need all of the possible air that I could possibly furnish to play anything on euphonium that I'm hired to play. Of course I'm not euphonium soloist, and I don't do any circular breathing virtuoso soloist tricks or any of that sort of thing.

I believe when we cherry pick anecdotal examples to argue our points, we are not being particularly scientific nor technical.

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yes...

...and with my (large, yet older) lungs, I have found that I need to do a couple of things (ex: the portable keyboard bench that I adapted) in order to be able to take in lots of air easily (in order to adequately "feed" the - one particular - huge tuba)...

...but that's just ME (but possibly lots of people...including people with younger/more-flexible/yet-smaller lungs than mine.

Interestingly, Mr. Baadsvik is ten years younger than me, but/and (again) he's always playing a bass (not 6.5/4 contrabass B-flat) tuba in his recitals which (I know from my own knowledge/self-evaluation that I myself am a considerably better BASS than CONTRAbass tuba player...comparing MYSELF to MYSELF...not me to Mr. Baadsvik) is easier and far less insistent on a large air capacity.

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' got it.

I'm not going to defend nor criticize him...

typical defense: "Well...Listen how he plays."
typical criticism: "He doesn't do as he says."

me: shoulder shrug

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 8:33 am There's a certain type of player that pays too much attention to how they sound to themselves, while paying little attention to how they sound in the room. Most all of that type tend to underplay...ie. play confidentially. Usually (to me) even up close it's not what I would prefer to hear...
...NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH jazz artists of the past who mastered playing into close microphones...prime example: Carl Fontana (etc.)

I like "play confidentially."

jtm wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:00 pm

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 8:33 am There's a certain type of player that pays too much attention to how they sound to themselves, while paying little attention to how they sound in the room. Most all of that type tend to underplay...ie. play confidentially. Usually (to me) even up close it's not what I would prefer to hear...
...NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH jazz artists of the past who mastered playing into close microphones...prime example: Carl Fontana (etc.)

I like "play confidentially."

Well, now that you mention it.

I do tend to notice a difference when i'm playing when in different moodswings and when i'm paying to much attention to a certain area.
I think that when i'm paying to much attention i start to dislike every little thing that doesn't sound right or is weird in some way. And when i start to hear things i don't like i'll try to hard and then my embouchure is gone after less then half an hour.

It also varies on what the body is capable of that day obviously.

But, when i'm not paying to much attention and just go with it, everything comes out alot better, i'll take it easier on the lips (without noticing to much) and i can hold on much longer.

So yes, playing with confidence does certainly help a lot.

NiekH wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 1:10 am So yes, playing with confidence does certainly help a lot.

I don't disagree...

...but there's another meaning to "confidentially"...

...which is "in secret"..."only told to you"...

...so I probably should have simply said, "not as loud as it should be".

That picture of Baadsvik -- I do see an open throat and an upright head. I think the air is getting there and he is being "expressive." When one is a solo performer, that helps the performance to make faces and body movement. Unless you are a banjo or horn player, in which case it appears to be the opposite. Or an Irish step dancer.

I've recommended The Hook I use as an oboe support to many with thumb issues (it attaches to the stand and the bell rests on it, totally taking the weight off the right thumb, which makes it possible for me to play the Cor,) and they immediately refuse to even try it because it will prevent them from bobbing and weaving all over the available space.

Grumpikins wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 5:45 pm Based on your description, I would say your best option would be to find a local professional instructor and have an in person lesson. Those issues need to be addressed by someone who can see what your doing and show you how to correct them. Just one or two lessons should be enough to set you on th correct path.

Best wishes.

Sent from my SM-S367VL using Tapatalk

Classic old skool tubenet.

Because of this:
" And when i start to hear things i don't like i'll try to hard and then my embouchure is gone after less then half an hour. "

I'm going to join the crowd and say get a teacher, because -- the WAY you are focusing on your embouchure is exactly what leads to dystonia. If your setup is not correct or you do not know how to play the range, you're going to be fighting something that can't do what you're asking it to, and I repeat, that is what leads to dytsonia. If you get the instruction to make sure your setup is correct, and how to play the range (rolled out for low, rolled in for high, in the middle for the middle) you can have considerably less focus on the little things and much more focus on the big things, and play music.

So coming back to this topic,

2 small weeks ago i went to a guy that did some tests with me. this involved measuring my lung capacity, measuring how much pressure i put on my mouthpiece, and on the last test he had a special 3d printed mouthpiece with a extra bore where he could put in a camera to look at my mouth movement.

and afterwards he could conclude that, i am a ''lazy'' player. so i am not using enough air. at the camera view you could see that as i went higher in scale, my bottom lips would pull in to my mouth, and over my bottom teeth. because of this, the hole where you're air would normally go thru and would vibrate your lips, basically didn't exist, and so i wasn't able to play high notes.

within the next few business days i will get back my results from him with that, some exercises to help me.

since then, i have been focusing more on being less ''lazy'' and putting in some work. i also started to put less pressure on my lips/ mouthpiece even tho it would decrease my range in height.

i also bought a U-trainer to help my embouchure a bit.

and i can now say that i am slowly improving which i am very happy with. i already can play a lot longer without being to exausted, and my range has really improved in height already. i went from a A/ B above the bar to a C/ D above the bar (violin key), and with that i can hold on to the notes for way longer without my lips dying of.

i really hope to keep improving like this and hope that the results from the tests wil also help me a lot.

Have a nice day,

Niek H