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Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:58 am
by LeMark
That's not a piggy. That's an Arion
Wrong valve wrap, wrong bore size. A piggy is an 835 bore, 3/4 wrap, 4/4 bell with the open wrap 3rd and 4th valve tubing of the 601
I've played a BBb piggy recently, it's a shadow of what a piggy should be, but then again so are the new CC piggies
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:05 am
by LeMark
Proof the opera is not a piggy
.
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:08 am
by Dents Be Gone!
I agree, guys. This is the way to go.
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 9:35 am
by LeMark
Yep, those are great tubas
I added a 5th valve to mine, but now I'm probably going to sell it because of the move to Bbb
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:07 pm
by Tombass
DonO. wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:01 am
arpthark wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 9:23 am
Heh. Just noticed you can see "Cerveny" engraved on some of those tubas in the pictures in that Amati catalog. The "Opera Model" (Piggy) BBb is also listed, separate from the Arion. It did exist!
Sorry to derail, carry on.
I have told this story before here. When I was a freshman in college in 1974, or perhaps early 1975, I went to the “Mid-East” band conference in Pittsburgh, PA. It was an attempt to provide a Mid-West type experience for band directors from the East that was closer for them. It didn’t last. It may have been the only attempt, or maybe a couple more years, I can’t recall. But Custom Music had a booth with lots of demo tubas on display, and I am sure I played a BBb Piggy. I think they were “exclusive” Cerveny dealers at the time. My memory is clear. I almost bought it. I probably would have if I would have had the cash on hand. It was impressive. And the fact that I considered buying it, well, if it had been CC, I wouldn’t have considered it. I would have only considered a BBb. Because my teacher, unlike many teachers of the time, did not ask me to switch from what I was already comfortable with. So, for all these years, people have been telling me I HAD to be wrong, because that particular horn did not exist. Now we have proof that it did exist! So my story now becomes more believable, does it not? Vindication!
I'm glad to prove that your memory was correct.
All the instruments you tried back then seemed great, and I was really interested in BBb Piggy. Is the current model is CBB603?
Some of you here may be familiar with the events of that time.
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:23 pm
by Tombass
Thank you for your reply. It's very similar to my tuba.
My instrument only has letters, but the tuba on eBay seems to have decorative engravings around the letters.Is it a difference in the year of manufacture or the model?
If anyone in this forum knows the history of the engraving or has a catalog from the 1990s, able to narrow down the year of manufacture of my instrument.
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:25 pm
by LeMark
the opera model is not a piggy. We've covered this before. Piggies are 835 bore, and the opera is 795. The opera is much closer to an arion. Piggies have a different valve circuit wrap, one shared with the 6/4 601.
I played an actual BBb piggy recently, and I wasn't impressed, but there haven't been any cerveny tuba in the last 30 years that have impressed me
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 4:45 pm
by Mary Ann
Anybody know the bore size on this? I queried the seller, who ignored me. Not a good way to sell on ebay.
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 4:49 pm
by LeMark
795
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 4:55 pm
by arpthark
@LeMark, you're right. I thought the Piggy was called the "opera" model in some literature. Are you sure it never was?
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 5:09 pm
by LeMark
Not that I've ever seen. Even the name piggy was something that happened when they started exporting them to the USA
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Wed May 01, 2024 6:14 am
by Tombass
LeMark wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:25 pm
the opera model is not a piggy. We've covered this before. Piggies are 835 bore, and the opera is 795. The opera is much closer to an arion. Piggies have a different valve circuit wrap, one shared with the 6/4 601.
I played an actual BBb piggy recently, and I wasn't impressed, but there haven't been any cerveny tuba in the last 30 years that have impressed me
@LeMark
Thank you for letting me know the details.
Opera and Piggy seem to be separated in the current Cerveny catalog, so I learn that they are completely different things.
He seems to be very knowledgeable about the tuba, which is amazing.
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 6:04 am
by Tombass
Does anyone know the year of manufacture by serial number or have Amati and Cerveny catalogs from the 1990s?
Now that I know the model number, I would like to be able to clarify when it was made.
thank you.
Serial number:63566
Model: ABB481
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 10:43 am
by BramJ
Tombass wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 6:04 am
Does anyone know the year of manufacture by serial number or have Amati and Cerveny catalogs from the 1990s?
Now that I know the model number, I would like to be able to clarify when it was made.
thank you.
Serial number:63566
Model: ABB481
I have a Cerveny 1660 (old part number Arion) with serial number 71013. It is owned by the community band and was likely purchased new in the early 80's
I have contacted Cerveny about it but never got a reply
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 1:05 pm
by LeMark
From what I understand cerveny serial numbers are pretty random and not that useful
I may have told you wrong for a date based on the engraving, after seeing thet catalog from the 70's with the SAME engraving
Maybe there was different engraving for different markets. This is the engraving for the American market from the late 70's to about 1990
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 1:25 pm
by LeMark
Here's my cerveny from the 60's
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 1:57 pm
by BramJ
My (late '70, early '80) Cerveny 1660 has the same engraving as your 60's Cerveny
My Amati AFB-451 F tuba just has "Amati" engraved and Kraslice and the type number below it.
No idea how old that is
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 2:01 pm
by LeMark
The only thing consistent about Cerveny is how inconsistent they are
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 11:15 pm
by Tombass
BramJ wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 10:43 am
Tombass wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 6:04 am
Does anyone know the year of manufacture by serial number or have Amati and Cerveny catalogs from the 1990s?
Now that I know the model number, I would like to be able to clarify when it was made.
thank you.
Serial number:63566
Model: ABB481
I have a Cerveny 1660 (old part number Arion) with serial number 71013. It is owned by the community band and was likely purchased new in the early 80's
I have contacted Cerveny about it but never got a reply
Thank you for posting. I could undestand that If it's Arion, the serial is from the 1980s.Also, regarding a different model, I find a statement on the Internet from Thomas Prem who works for Amati said that #72502 was made in 1975.
I think that the serial numbers seem to be different for each product number.
I also contacted Amati, but they only told me that the 5-digit serial number was indicated on the product that was manufactured before 1995, and they have ignored my subsequent communications.
Re: I want to know about my old Amati tuba
Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 12:19 am
by Tombass
LeMark wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 1:05 pm
From what I understand cerveny serial numbers are pretty random and not that useful
I may have told you wrong for a date based on the engraving, after seeing thet catalog from the 70's with the SAME engraving
Maybe there was different engraving for different markets. This is the engraving for the American market from the late 70's to about 1990
Thank you for providing detailed information and including photos.
I could understand that if the same serial number also exists, I won't be able to rely on it unless I search within the same product number.
I was surprised to learn that the markings may have changed depending on the shipping destination.
As you can see in the photo, the engraving on my tuba is very simple, so I understood that it was sold outside of the United States.
