Holton 345 Redux

[bloke]

A standard rotor features a larger interior cavity than a Rotax valve of the same knuckles' bore size.

Probably, though, the best rotors are those with "teleports"...
https://tinyurl.com/rotorswithteleports2

[the elephant]

Time snuck past me. I have to use the Holton on Friday and Saturday.

I have two rather long days ahead of me if I want to have this tuba ready for Prime Time…

[the elephant]

Okay, I am rushing through this to get the tuba into top playing condition. I am NOT worried about alignment or appearance. I can go back and do all that stuff after this weekend.

This morning I hacked (literally) at the tenon from the 6th branch until the 5th valve section could be easily installed and removed. I then Tried to get stuff to line up well enough that the MTS worked okay. It is a little bit off, but it works, and more importantly, it will not fall out of the horn if it is hot outside and I have to pull out beyond a certain spot. It does not "ting" when it is removed, so that probably is good enough for a downward-pointing slide. (This tuba has a history of the main slide falling out at inopportune moments. Once this is finished I *think* I can LENGTHEN the MTS by one inch on each leg, and that will likely solve this problem.

I really need to have TWO braces to the slide on the back. The slide did not line up the way I imagined, and with some adjustment (next week) I can fix this. Right now I had a choice of two braces that could be made long enough for the gap on the more open side. The gap on the other side is too narrow for what I have, so I have to make the assembly unable to shift in position at all when installed.

Temporarily, I have used my last remaining large, socketed brace. It fits well but the design allows for some sight movement, no matter how tightly it is screwed down. I will come up with something better after this week of playing is done. For now, everything fits, is aligned more than well enough, and looks like it needs to be cleaned up. (Oh, well…)

Now I need to install my thumb lever bracket and make a new linkage arm. I may do the lever tonight. I will work on the linkage tomorrow. If I get it all done I will do a thorough "flush and lube" job and get to practicing all that Pops stuff in my folder.

Pics…

[the elephant]

Things look good on that layout.

[the elephant]

I installed the new thumb ring.

I had to mess around with the thumb ring location for a while until I was really happy. I consulted old photos and set up this Jürgen Voigt baby so that it was exactly where I need the ring to be, with ample room to adjust it in either direction.

I bought one of these for my Kurath F tuba and did not like it for some time. I discovered that you really need to crank down on those two set screws and the barrel lock for the ring itself to not be pissed off at it all the time. Once you realize the steel screws will not strip out and that the brass is soft enough to allow you to more or less bury them, it stays where you put it. I was being too nice to it. Anyway, after I tightened the dang things enough I have really liked the ring. I decided to put one on this tuba, too.

Later tonight and all tomorrow I will be re-making the lever bracket and then making a scratch-built lever. These I hope to keep. Because of my time constraint I will likely make the linkage out of 4-40 all-thread rod and just bend it to fit the space. I will make a nice, solid nickel silver one at a later date.

More pics…

Hey, hey, hey! How sexy is *that*?


More ringporn…


This is the old thumb ring. I *love* this ring. I am considering hacking the Voigt to accept this. I love the shape. The bracket is part of a Miraphone 186 paddle rack mounting rod silver soldered to the socket from a St. Pete thumb ring base. The ring and lock nut are likewise St. Pete parts.


These are the old bracket and lever. They worked well, and were very strong, but that lever is FUGLY. I am hoping to fix that.


The bracket fit like this, but it placed the "rack" in a location that required me to make a wonky looking lever that I always disliked.


I will save the "rack" but make a new bracket that will locate the rack like this, allowing for a straight arm from the hinge tube to the thumb. The ball will have to be on an extension, but I have that worked out in my head. The old way worked well, and the new one will, too — but it should LOOK a lot better.

[bloke]

Just fwiw...

You are no longer permitted to have a mantra.

All that are allowed are persontras...

Perhaps theytras are acceptable.

(I just might have to buy your Holton...so I can store my Holton in it.)

[the elephant]

[the elephant]

I have decided to reuse my old parts as much as possible to get this horn ready for tomorrow's rehearsal and then a handful of outdoor Pops runouts with a lot of low brass on the program. I am rushing things because if I miss this spate of work I will have to wait seven months until I need a BAT again. I need feedback from playing melodic and chordal parts, and to get a sense of balance, blend, overall intonation, specific quirks, and — well — am I having fun with this tuba, and are my colleagues enjoying sitting on top of this horn. You can only do so much analysis of a horn with a tuner in a room in a house. This size of horn really needs to be tested out in a concert hall and outdoors.

The tenon on the 6th branch that I had to use a saw on so that I could install or remove the 5th valve section came out pretty nice. The new 5th valve section fits very well and is easy to mount to the bugle.

The piston section mounts nicely, as well, with all eight braces still lining up exactly as intended after about 50 installations and removals. I will likely never need to do this another 50 times over the life of the horn, so I think it is okay.

The leadpipe still needs to be bent a bit more in two spots, but it plays well, has a great angle for my overbite, and allows me to see clearly with both eyes — the bell does not bock my left eye at all.

I have decided to reuse my lever and bracket until after the season is over and I get back from my quick trip to Texas. These parts are easy for me to scratch-build and replace at any time, and (more importantly) they fit and work perfectly.

The linkage arm is pretty beaten up, but I can actually reuse it, despite the valve being oriented to the opposite side of the tube occupies. In an odd quirk of fate, the locations of the linkage balls on the stop arms of the former valve and the one currently installed are less than a quarter of an inch from each other, and this is a side-to-side motion. It is the exact, same space between the old lever ball and where the new stop arm's ball will be. So the length is perfect and the .25" swing to the side will actually work BETTER. (I planned this out with a lot of care when I started this project.)

THIS MEANS…

I have to silver solder a wafer of nickel silver to the stop arm, drill and tap it, install the ball, then replace the old sockets on the linkage arm. I have to install one water key. I have to test it. Then a teardown and thorough cleaning, followed by reassembly, and except for all the details I will work out over the summer THIS HORN WILL BE DONE!

[York-aholic]

That's great. Back in the saddle again!

[prairieboy1]

Terrific news. Have fun playing your horn during the rehearsal and the concerts! That's why you've done all this work!

[the elephant]

The horn is now fully functional (except for that dang water key I keep forgetting to install on the main slide!) and I tested it with a tuner and some drone pitch work. I can safely take it to work now; it plays well.

There are many details to work out, but all can be addressed over the summer.

I fired up the old drill press and immediately remembered how much I hate it because I lack a proper X/Y drill press vise. You cannot end drill rods for crap with this thing. The chuck is terrible, too, having a noticeable amount of runout. Perhaps this Christmas Santa will bring me a better one with a solid vise.

Anyway, after I end drilled into the nickel silver rod about a quarter of an inch, I tapped the hole to 4-40 and cut off the length I needed.

I silver soldered this to the Miraphone stop arm. After a soak in some pickle to eat off the remaining "glass" from the brazing flux, it buffed out really nicely. I installed it on my 5th valve.

I took the old linkage arm and reset the angles of the two sockets and fixed them with Loctite.

I snapped that bad boy in place, and the valve works wonderfully now.

Everything smells of flame, flux, buffing dirt, and general mess. I will scrub the crap out of the two valve sections and the leadpipe (off the horn, easy peasy!) and put her back together so I can practice tonight.

Tomorrow that damned water key goes onto the main slide, and I will search for the buzz in the bell to see if I can shut it the hell up. (I *hate* sympathetic vibrations when I am playing!)

Thanks for following this build. I am sorry it took me so long but, you know, money, time, etc. I will come back to this thread once the horn is COMPLETED to post a few photos of her, all tarted up with some polish and some good lighting, heh, heh…

Pics…

This tuba's first slide is n the way of a lot of things, the in-the-leadpipe 5th valve preferred by Mr. Rusk being the worst offender. I yanked that and made a new leadpipe the first year I had this tuba. Germane to this build, the lever has to be in front of the slide tube. The ball end has to be below it. Somewhere between these two points is where the rod connecting that end of the lever to the hinge tube. And there is no convenient location for the bracket to be located to hold that hinge tube. So I have some weird-a$$-looking gear on my 5th. I will eventually work out something that looks much nicer. I had planned on doing this today, but TBH I am *sick* of this tuba at this moment, so nope. Not today. Nope, nope, nope.


GAAH! Freaking water key!


You can sort of see the work I did to the stop arm in this shot. (Okay, so I did all that work and forgot to take a dang pic. Sue me.)


Ain't she a purdy'n?

[Tubajug]

She is most definitely a purdy'n!

[cjk]

Wade, I am certainly excited for you that you got your Holton all put back together even if some if it may need some rework later. It's super to see it looking like a tuba again.

[the elephant]

Through carelessness, I have repeatedly hijacked one of Joe's threads. The discussion was back to the little B&S main slide brace and how I would like to have an enameled badge made of my elephant avatar and then epoxy that into the brace's "window" for a custom look that is understated. If you know me online it will be instantly recognizable as being mine without having to put my name on the horn.

Then the discussion turned to various possible engravings to the bell and other ideas that are all very good and nice. I actually like the idea of an elephant head engraved on the bell.

Here is my last post in Joe's thread that I decided to delete and then post here in the thread about this very instrument.
_____________

Actually, regarding the engraving, it had become rather faint. I suspect it was buffed pretty hard before it was replated by Mr. Rusk. (I actually know who did the plating of this instrument. It was not Anderson's, either. They would have done a lot better job — and charged Rusk far more, to make this horn not very profitable for him.)

I used one of my smaller hook scrapers to very slowly re-engrave this. It did not go well, so I only did a few characters. However, there are engravers out there who are experts at re-engraving musical instruments (mostly very old and fancy alto and tenor saxes, but tubas are done, too. I am considering driving out to one of them with whom I have a working relationship, and have this bell carefully re-engraved. If I do this I *might* have some small bits added to it. One friend suggested a very large elephant head engraved AROUND the Holton label, which is not all that big. But I don't think that would look good.

However, I have seen several line drawings of an elephant head that would be very engravable and that could fit on the bell while not looking conspicuously ludicrous.

Here is an example that I like…



It would not look too bad if it was about four inches across and above the factory engraving. I think that would look pretty nice. This is a pretty bad photoshop attempt. You can barely see it, but you can get an idea from this.

[bort2.0]

I'll give you the highest Minnesota honors for this -- it looks pretty good.

[the elephant]

Finns are like this, too. Frequently, the highest superlative you'll ever get from them is "pretty good", so I'll take it. Thanks!

[MN_TimTuba]

Wade,
That is one nice looking, well-balanced horn!
Tim

[cjk]

I totally dig the elephant on the bell!!!

[the elephant]

This morning I installed the water key to the main slide. (Woohoo! Drainage!)

After that, I removed the piston and rotor valve sections and the leadpipe and "cleaned them to a high state" (as Army Drill Sergeants love to say) and let them dry while I ate some grub. After that, I reassembled everything with lots of good lube.

When I put the rotary valve section on I was feeling mighty fine. However, I am learning how best to take down and reassemble this horn. And I learned some stuff "real good". The water keys must be assembled with the valves off of the bugle. The linkage to 5th must go on last, so you can get your fingers in there to install the leadpipe collar. Then, very last, the linkage must be snapped in place. Even this little detail was a PITA until I sorted the procedure. Both ends have a trap. If you snap on one end the other might be "caged" out by a brace. If you do it the other way the same thing, but a different brace. So you *must* fish it into all the spaghetti and float it out in space while you get your parallel pliers on the lever back and the top of the socket to snap them together. (They are far too tight to be done with bare fingers unless you are made of sterner stuff than I.) The best way is to snap down to the back of the lever first, then to the valve's stop-arm.

Wow, if I ever sell this tuba (highly unlikely) I will have to give a short masterclass on how to do all this. It is easy, but it must follow an order or you can't reach some things. Making the valve set removable gave me much more latitude in where I located things. If you do not have to worry about covering up valve caps or accessing removable parts things are pretty cool.

After an hour of testing the horn, I can say that it is absolutely better in most ways. The flat, bottom line G even got better as I got dialed-in with the slides and such. I can play it open in some cases, 13 in others. Everything shifted around a little, but it is generally moderately better to much better. The low F is now the way it should be. I am pleased and am excited to get to play with my colleagues tonight for the first time in 15 months. (I have been performing with my two quintets a little, but have not shared the stage with more than four others, none of them being strings, winds, or percussion.

Tonight is going to be fun!

Thanks so much for following this thread.

WR

[bloke]

tusk-tusk !!!
We're going to need to see a rehearsal-or-gig shot of you Wade-ing through harmonious ecstasy and making a Rack-et with it.