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FWIW, we used three 186’s and a 187 (all in BBb) when I was in the Army. Seemed that it worked very well for us.

I don't "get" (ie. am skeptical) when someone claims (after four years of middle school, four years of high school, and four years of kolij sousaphonics, even if someone is ten or twenty years older...and I rarely see people older than that claim this) that they have "forgotten" how to play a BB-flat tuba.

jonesbrass wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:58 pm FWIW, we used three 186’s and a 187 (all in BBb) when I was in the Army. Seemed that it worked very well for us.

Whatever a conductor prefers.

Also yes I agree with limited winds of high artistic skill, projection when needed is easier. As a clarinetist who has to sit next to other clarinets most of my life, it's especially true.

Some clarinet players should never have been handed a recorder, let alone a clarinet!!

Three Valves wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:53 pm Some clarinet players should never have been handed a recorder, let alone a clarinet!!

or a Tuba

The two tubas I feel are superior for a concert band are:
1) Kings, no matter how old or which variant on BBb over the century plus they have been in production; and
2) Besson New Standard 3-valve comp with the 17-inch bell for superlative intonation and the proper timbre to support and blend.

In some of my assignments in the Army, I used a Besson 980 or 982 tuba, almost exclusively. They work very well for playing in small to medium sized military bands. In fact, I remember a time when we had only two tuba players, and we both played EEb, I played a Besson, the other Soldier played a MW 2141. The conductor at the time preferred the sound, rather than us using our larger BBb, CC tubas. You have to work a little harder on the low range stuff, but it's doable. Here are some videos that include some EEb Etude, band, BQ excerpts.
Snedecor Etude No 4
https://youtu.be/9YYt38r-H-U
BQ compilation
https://youtu.be/V665QBX9gUs
In the Storm and Sunshine
https://youtu.be/BdqUCF3xhrQ
Jack Tar March
https://youtu.be/9nx-pZcbDgA

It appears that the common denominator is that to make a band tuba part work you need: a tuba. Probably.

I don't think the car analogy adds up. Note that "regular car", "luxury car" etc. categories aren't real either, nor do they sort out according to a single parameter like size.

donn wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:43 pm I don't think the car analogy adds up. Note that "regular car", "luxury car" etc. categories aren't real either, nor do they sort out according to a single parameter like size.

That was the economy version of thought, whatever stream of consciousness comes out in a couple of minutes.

Beyond that, in the words of our new overlord:

"Gimme a break, man."

I guess I missed something:
Is the new guy giving away free cars...??
Where’s the line?

bloke “I’m assuming they are those electric/coal cars…??”

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:40 pm I guess I missed something:
Is the new guy giving away free cars...??
Where’s the line?

bloke “I’m assuming they are those electric/coal cars…??”

I'm assuming they are made in China.

iiipopes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:14 pm The two tubas I feel are superior for a concert band are:
1) Kings, no matter how old or which variant on BBb over the century plus they have been in production; and
2) Besson New Standard 3-valve comp with the 17-inch bell for superlative intonation and the proper timbre to support and blend.

I agree on the kings. I once heard a local band play a concert and both their tuba players played on the old style orange king1241's. The tubas of course blended, but so much projection, zip, and color!

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:53 pm

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:40 pm I guess I missed something:
Is the new guy giving away free cars...??
Where’s the line?

bloke “I’m assuming they are those electric/coal cars…??”

I'm assuming they are made in China.

Nothing says “Unity” like laying off a few thousand pissed off well paid well armed union workers who know where you work!!

Three Valves wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:17 pm

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:53 pm

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:40 pm I guess I missed something:
Is the new guy giving away free cars...??
Where’s the line?

bloke “I’m assuming they are those electric/coal cars…??”

I'm assuming they are made in China.

Nothing says “Unity” like laying off a few thousand pissed off well paid well armed union workers who know where you work!!

I'm unified with you on that!
Tim

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:19 pm I don't "get" (ie. am skeptical) when someone claims (after four years of middle school, four years of high school, and four years of kolij sousaphonics, even if someone is ten or twenty years older...and I rarely see people older than that claim this) that they have "forgotten" how to play a BB-flat tuba.

It's not really a matter of forgetting. It's a matter of unconscious habit. What finger goes down out of unconscious habit when I see a particular note. Back in college, the only time I played BBb tuba was during marching band season. But that was still often enough that I was basically equally as comfortable sight-reading on whichever tuba I had at the time. Now... I get maybe 15 min a day only on CC. I'm not "comfortable" on BBb. Do I know how to play BBb? Sure... but sit a piece in front of me with BBb I'll have to struggle through it; compared to having a much easier time on CC. I think given a week or 2 of consistent 1hr or so per day exclusively on BBb... and I would be oK.

I see it this way through the car analogy: (Take this with a grain of salt, I just thought it was fun to compare these to cars!)

3/4 tubas are like a smart car. Let's say 85% or so would find that too small, but it works.

4/4 tubas are like your average sedan. They work for most everybody, don't break the bank, and are sort of low in terms of power and cost.

4/4+ tubas are like an SUV. A little big for some folks but this is what a lot of people like to use. Costs a little more up front but you get what you pay for.

5/4 tubas are your 1500 series pickup trucks of the tuba world. Too big for many people but those of us who own them love them and some use them for what they're intended to do: Large ensemble work and other big group stuff. Easy to daily drive, just a bit more expensive all around.

6/4 tubas remind me of the 3/4 ton or 1 ton pickups. The 2500 or 3500 diesels. Most average people don't *need* them. They're hard to park, cost a whole bunch of money, and are just too big for most applications. However, they CAN be daily driven, you're just going to be doing more work every time you decide to do that. These are specialized for a very specific application.

As we readily compare our musical instruments to pick-up trucks, can we really blame others for doing the same?

It’s not worth rescuing bad analogies, no matter how good the intention was. The car analogy is poor, imo.

Tubas are tools. Compare it to brushes for an artist, wrenches for a mechanic, etc.

Good tools usually have some overlapping functionality. Some tools are very specific and limited in use.

bloke wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:00 am As we readily compare our musical instruments to pick-up trucks, can we really blame others for doing the same?

I was typing up (and editing/holding my tongue) my thoughts as this came in. I had typed up some more rhetoric in response to/affirmation of this post, but edited that out as well.

Essentially, I agree.

Well, it's kind of an easy comparison. It's enormous, price is relatively the same, and it's something that is more interesting to us than anyone else around us. I don't have a pickup truck, but if I did, I'm sure I would be the only one in the family who was excited about it. Much like a tuba.