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With jewelers rouge having been run around everywhere where I cut off dead lacquer, that really stepped it up. I’m going to take a shower, wash off all this buffing crap, wipe the instrument down and - with a torch ready to combat certain blushing - I’m going to hit it with a rattle can, and stick it together.

The owner of the tuba is here to visit, and I don’t wanna be stuck out in the shop, while he and his family are here.

I was getting ready to stick it together, but the Mrs. got worried about driving home in bad weather in the dark, and they headed home.



...plus (honest truth) - as they are taking YET ANOTHER instrument from here home with them, and their minivan was loaded with two adults, three kids, a double stroller, and accoutrements - this tuba WOULD NOT HAVE FIT in that van.

They'll be back (only father/daughter - a zoo visit in Memphis, I hear) next week for it.

If I get it stuck together before dark (only two hours, so possibly not), I'll shoot some pictures, record the ENTIRE St. Louis Symphony audition repertoire on it, and then post those "how to" tracks on youtube AND tuba/euphonium.

I've got the thing together and tooted on it.

Those old HEAVY Miraphone lever springs are...uh...strong.

The nylon grommets in the #2 and #4 stop arms (surely, all are fifty years old, because these never get replaced) are shot, so those two make noise...I'll replace those two.
I will probably replace some or all rubber cork plate bumpers (fifty years old as well...??)

NOT completely unsoldering the tuba:
It was sorta "fun" (well... ) repairing all of those formidable dents WITHOUT taking the instrument apart - and WITHOUT any annealing, BUT the (obviously) payoff was at the end.

sound: even more of that model 84 "power" than with the C version (duh, the bugle is longer).
tuning: same as with the C version; FORGET playing D open or C-sharp 2nd valve, those MUST be 1-2 and 2-3. C is just fine with 1st valve.

The receiver is typically old-era shallow, and doesn't cover all that much of a standard shank mouthpiece...but plays fine (just as they always do).

the replacement #4 rotor body: The geometry of it (Miraphone having manufactured it for me based on a picture with measurements drawn on to the picture) defines the stop arm connection as "high", so I subtly "humped up" the #4 stop arm.

For me, A=440 ("heating up the sound" - ie. very loud) is still only a bit more than an inch out, for the main slide.

4th circuit: Unlike some other Miraphone B-flat tubas, one is not required to pull that (albeit short) #4 slide all the way out to tune C and F, so there's room to tune those pitches FLAT - so that the 2-4 pitches are not so horribly sharp.
cosmetic shortcomings: a combination of the "found" condition of the instrument, and the budget of the instrument's owner
Reminder:
This tuba is NOT for sale, but I AM going to slick out one that we own (candidly, will be less of a challenge than was this one) and offer it for sale.




out of focus, but I ain't goin' back out there...



weather update: (They should have stayed.)

ok...
I replaced the pictures with more well-lit pictures.

tip:
yes…It’s obvious where the new lacquer starts and the old lacquer stops, but I made it ~slightly~ less obvious by running the torch over the color buffed bell exterior - which darkened the brass a little bit, and then I put a couple of green drops and a drop of gold (defacto: orange) into the clear lacquer.
I can see that a little bit of brown probably would’ve helped as well.
(Those dyes are all translucent.)

It's a beauty!

Thanks, Terry. One thing’s for sure:
It’s skinny.

That is about the skinniest tuba I have ever seen! It looks terrific!

Back home that would be a "tuba flaca".

Looks good!

There is a very sad 86 B-flat here that probably won’t be repaired/sold for quite a while, but it has the modern springs on it in good condition. I think I’m going to have to swap the springs over to this model 84, because they’re just way too ridiculously strong - ruining the playing experience.
Once I’ve done that (and replaced the two noisy nylon bushings), I feel like the instrument’s owner will have something that they will really enjoy.
As far as today is concerned, I have to move over to some two-hour, three-hour, and four-hour (not tubas) repairs, to keep other people from screaming at me.
(Yesterday, I took a beautiful-looking customer-owned Holton model 179 double horn apart, and saw that the rotors had been aggressively buffed. I’m not sure that there is much to be done, because I think this is the last semester of the student’s senior year, and they plan to sell it. I just hope that they disclose its condition when they sell it… but that’s not my responsibility.
I have asked the instrument’s owner to NOT put in their eventual ad that they had it serviced by me.)

wow.
I haven't bumped THIS thread in a while.
The person who is expressing interest in purchasing the bloke's shop-owned 84-B (aka "184 BB-flat") encouraged me to reactivate it - perhaps because I haven't previously shown them (not even) picture #1 of the instrument they're considering purchasing, and this nudge would produce pictures.
OK...
I'm really close to tying this project up in a bow, but - prior to sticking the two BIG pieces back on - this stuff (pictured below) needs to all be "as good as it's going to get", because it's FAR easier to work on the guts withOUT a bottom bow and a bell hooked to them.

The areas numbered (in one of the pictures, which refer to the valve circuits of which they are parts) are where - oddly - some serious cylindrical-tubing denting had (in this instrument's former life) occurred. My best guess (??) is that they hung it up on some wooden or metal hook on the wall, because how else could all of that interior denting have occurred...(??) Sadly (whatever...far worse boo-boos have occurred...NOT that big of a deal...), I almost had the wide #4 loop (4B) just about completely repaired (and remarkably ROUND - perhaps ROUNDER BORE than it was originally), but - when pulling out the tightest-fitting cabled steel steel ball (.705" - nearly the advertised bore of the instrument) for the very last time (finished), the temporary solder joint (holding its open left upward-oriented end in place - as I had removed that big UPPER loop - which is now back in place) GAVE WAY, thus destroying that completely-repaired large three-bend lower portion of the #4 circuit, so - before my surgery - I asked Christian (Miraphone honcho/wizard/guru/angelic person) to send me another (which he did) and a couple of days ago (as I'm "getting back on the horse" after surgery) I removed the destroyed one and installed it. It (see the obverse picture) inserts into the #4 rotor lower port, and also has a carriage bracket support soldered to it (as seen). Anyway, the new one is in place, the loop is dent-free, all soldered back together, and (other than picking over) the "guts" of the instrument are now just about ready to receive the bell and bottom bow.

As is seen in the "street-view" (revealingly: peering down it's surface) picture of the upper bow nickel cap, I've done a very nice/honest job of smoothing up the (sure: previously beat up) upper bow cap WITHOUT removing it, and I will probably refinish (buff and re-lacquer) the cap, for a slicker appearance - just as I will surely do the same with the bottom bow's nickel cap.

The bell (to be shown in a subsequent post) is newer than the instrument (as the original bell was completely trashed/hopeless, when I bought this instrument) and - years ago - I removed any denting from the newer bell...It's very nice. fwiw, it's still old ENOUGH to have been engraved MiraFone, and for it's rim to only be a bit over 14 inches (360mm) in diameter (rather than the current-era larger 15-inch/380mm diameter).

The bottom bow is about 95% - 98% dent-free (as I've spent some time - previous to surgery - working on it, and its nickel silver cap (just as with the upper bow) will NOT require removal...but it's not quite close-enough to perfect (yet) to reinstall...a little bit more dent-lette picking-over required.

Also, the "guts" need a 5 - 10 minute acid bath "just because", and a few of the (removable) tuning slide bows feature a few dents as well.

It's not far from being done, and (hey...) there's actually a hard case to go along with it...and - though it's just a regular Sears-and-Roebuck wood case - it's actually dimensionally-built to properly accommodate a model 84.

What you're seeing - here (on the "guts" portion of this instrument) - is the original factory lacquer. This instrument is pre-epoxy era (ie. it is nitrocellulose "air-dry" lacquer), so it features that (old Bach Stradivarius-like) greenish-brown hue in the (formerly: clear) lacquer. I'm going to attempt to come fairly close to matching that aged hue on the bell, on the (to be re-polished) outer radii of the large bows, and on other touch-up areas, by mixing Nikolas orange (not gold), brown, and green translucent dyes into my spray-cup of clear Nikolas (nitrocellulose) lacquer. I'll do a few trials, eventually shrug my shoulders, and then (after a Hail Mary or two - or perhaps a GERONIMO !!! ) shoot it on the instrument.


...and yes: There are minor rotor/linkage issues to be addressed...I'm not getting into a narrative of that minutia.

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:48 pmI'm really close to tying this project up in a bow, but - prior to sticking the two BIG pieces back on - this stuff (pictured below) needs to all be "as good as it's going to get", because it's FAR easier to work on the guts withOUT a bottom bow and a bell hooked to them.

Amen to that truth. I had my two 186s in that same state for some time getting stuff just so, because adjustments after the final addition of the bell and bottom bow are a PITA to clean up nicely.

Since I am an inveterate tinkerer with my own horns I have come to hate silver plate and lacquer. This is the reasoning behind my removable valve sections. It is FAR easier to adjust something when you do not have to torch apart a lot of stuff to get to it.

Working on the valve section (the "machine") separate from the horn is *almost* fun. Finishing up a tuba in a similar state as what you picture here (machine + bugle without the interference provided by the bell and bottom bow) is likewise, *almost* fun.

Nice update.

I love how @bloke says, “ ..and yes: There are minor rotor/linkage issues to be addressed...” next to a picture where there is no 4th valve linkage or lever!

Think about it:
I had to remove that lever, in order to put the carriage support screw in place - to screw to the carriage support post which is soldered to the new/replacement 4th circuit branch.

"Issues" involve the fact that the lever carriage (per typical) is somewhat bent up, and needs to be put back as it should be...YET not so bent up that it couldn't be used as a stencil/guide to mount that post. Also, I haven't inspected the T-joints for play, neither have I yet inspected the nylon grommets in the S-arms, and the rotors (surely?) need cleaning.

bloke "but whatever...I have a gob of (NOT FOR SALE - because if I sell off stuff like this, I won't have it to use for future repairs) Miraphone lever assemblies in good condition with S-arms attached."

York-aholic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:32 am I love how @bloke says, “ ..and yes: There are minor rotor/linkage issues to be addressed...” next to a picture where there is no 4th valve linkage or lever!

I'm thinking that that this is dern-tootin' good enough for this left-on-the-instrument upper bow cap repair job.

I polished out the cap's shallower scratches, but (obviously) left the handful of small deep/pointed jabs in place.

To get a formerly-beat-up upper bow cap this smooth (without resorting to filing and sanding) requires a few "tricks"...and "trick" and "something that's easy" are not necessarily synonymous - as they are not, in this case. (My wrists and shoulders are tired. My worst-hurting surgery area has - over the last two or three days - retreated from "stinging" to "aching", so I'm rating that as improvement/healing. I'm also back to eating very low-carb foods. Those here - who eat this way - will understand why I retreated from it - for a few weeks - after surgery.)

Not only am I tired, but I'm really dirty. I'm going to wash up (shower, actually), eat a 1:30 P.M. lunch, go back out there, and mess with the linkage and a couple of the tuning slide crooks. (I'm eager for this thing to find it's way back into it's case - completely ready to offer for sale, and OUT of my workroom.)




side of upper bow cap


top of upper bow cap

OK...
After lunch (no shower...was too tired to shower), I picked over the guts, removed tuning slide bow dents, aligned slides, installed a new pull ring and flange on the #2 slide bow, straightened out and leveled the lever carriage (particularly proud of the job I did zeroing in that m.f. - ' spacing of formerly-bent stanchions are - individually - the same width - .001" wider, etc. - as the individual levers' hinge tubes), discovered that the lever carriage rod is some old back-o'-music-store b.s. (measures .15mm smaller than specs in diameter, and wrong threads on the ends - probably a salvaged saxophone rod) - so I'll make a correct one, pulled out tiny remote dinks via solder/inertia technique, etc...

That crap is all boring and NONE of it is picture-worthy...

...so here's a picture of the bell (much more picture-worthy - yes? - than any of that nit-picky/boring crap listed in the previous paragraph).

I recall that this bell is in the lower-mid 13000 range (would have to go get my glasses, and they're out in the shop), which would put its production somewhere in the 1980's.
I suspect the bell is probably 10 - 15 or more years younger than the rest of the instrument, but I didn't make a note of the original (totally trashed) bell's serial number, years ago (when I acquired this instrument, removed the worthless bell, and stored the rest of the instrument in the attic).

I actually have two 184 bells, both are very straight, the other has one tiny (1/4") crack, so I've chosen this one (no cracks) to go with this tuba. ...There's obviously some old solder and lacquer to remove - prior to installation on this tuba.

This instrument not one of those ancient "super heavy-duty linkage" Miraphone tubas - and DOES feature center screws in the valve caps, so - perhaps - late 1960s to the mid-1970's...(??)

now: 5:45 P.M. dinner...shower (no matter what), and bed (I still am not quite back up to full-speed, and Mrs. bloke is working rings around me).

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:10 am Think about it:
I had to remove that lever, in order to put the carriage support screw in place - to screw to the carriage support post which is soldered to the new/replacement 4th circuit branch.

Yep, I sort of deduced most of that. I just occasionally enjoy poking the bear. It might be best just to ignore snide posts.

This is very traumatic, and I just don’t know if I can ever recover.

York-aholic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:50 pm

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:10 am Think about it:
I had to remove that lever, in order to put the carriage support screw in place - to screw to the carriage support post which is soldered to the new/replacement 4th circuit branch.

Yep, I sort of deduced most of that. I just occasionally enjoy poking the bear. It might be best just to ignore snide posts.

Today is

- move all of our money (though due to inflation rendering it worthless, why bother?) to a locally-owned bank, because a bad-behaving Canadian bank bought our bank (and our bank sucked really bad - absurd fees, etc. - anyway)
- clean and polish this tuba bell, and pick over dent removal, and try to do the same with the bottom bow
- some stuff that I can’t think of right now EDIT: remembered...BUY LACQUER AND ONE VIAL OF TINT.
- possibly drive 1 hour X 2 to pick up a bunch of instruments in need of repair
- drop-ship a JP274S euphonium

Day

EDIT:

OK...
I cleaned some torch-ruined (would not chemically strip) lacquer, some solder, and tarnish from the bell.
I acquired this bell quite a few years ago, but never cleaned up up.
It looks pretty good (probably good enough to stick on a tuba), but it deserves to be shaped up just a little bit more.

OK...
Except for an acid bath for the guts, one last pass over bell dents, and (easy) dent removal from the 4th-casing-to-main-slide question-mark-shaped connector, This thing is really close to being ready to be put together.

Getting this bottom bow's cap's smoothness (without removing it) up to my standards was a lot of work, but (as someone who got me into this business pointed out) "There ain't nuthin' to it, but to do it".

I chose - not only - to not replace the bottom bow cap with a new one (as - from having just done the other one - I believe that Miraphone has "unified" the bottom bow caps of the B-flat and C versions of the 84, whereas - 50 years ago - these bottom bows were quite different from each other...and it was NOT particularly easy getting that new fits-C-or-B-flat cap to fit the OLD B-FLAT bottom bow), and I also decided (ok: "borderline" decision, as this cap wasn't in particularly nice shape) to leave it on the instrument while repairing it. (It's quite the challenge to end up with a nice smooth nickel-brass cap when working around thick solder (sandwiched between it and the bow itself) as well as a 1/16" tall standing seam - running all the way down the middle...a good bit of work with a sliding/solder/inertia "dent puller" tool (works like those used on car bodies, except with lead solder), as well as endless dent hammer taps.

Anyway, it looks good enough (to me...you?), and I'm leaving some of the original/interior darkened lacquer on the bottom bow (as - again - I'm planning on tinting clear lacquer with red/brown/green tints to come fairly close to "50-year-old darkened-down formerly-clear nitrocellulose lacquer".