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There's another European maker who makes mini F tubas for cavalry bands and kids, I can't recall the name.

This one? https://jestaedt-instrumente.de/instrumente/tuebchen/
Compared to the Melton Travel and the Wessex Bubby the Jestädt is a proper tuba, only very small. The Melton was never intented to be played in the real world, it is a hotel room training tool. I once played duets with my Courtois french c and a Melton, the Melton player felt really underpowered with it (in normal life he plays in a top notch orchestra!)

Snake Charmer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:52 am This one? https://jestaedt-instrumente.de/instrumente/tuebchen/
Compared to the Melton Travel and the Wessex Bubby the Jestädt is a proper tuba, only very small.

The Melton 182 seemed cool, but pricy. This Jestaedt (model 81) looks more realistic than a Bubbie. It has a baritonish proportion to it instead of a big tuba. The bore is big enough to make low sounds. I probably only need 4 valves, as the 5th valve doesn't look convincing.

Also, it doesn't appear to have any water key at all. Is this just a dumper? Any idea of price?

They do have a waterkey. I think some pictures were made with prototypes, but in the other pictures you can see them. And when I had the opportunity to try them they had them.
Even with the small size they have all a real tuba sound (I tried the F and C version), only one level softer and less dominant. Great for small ensemble playing. If you try to play with another normal sized tuba you will feel a bit lost for the lack of power.
They are mostly made-to-order and being German hand-made they are not cheap, as I remember they are on the more solid side of the four-digit numbers, probably a tad under the Melton. And they are that good that you rarely see a used one for sale!
Here in Germany they are used by some school bands/music schools for the comfort of being a proper tuba fitting for young players.
Maybe some day I will order one as a retirement tuba (in Eb with 5 valves!)...

. Can't delete, didn't fit the thread.

I contacted the Jestaedt shop, very nice people. They took the time to make a little comparison video and send it. Very impressed with the extra personal service and the sound of the little tuba. Unfortunately, these look like they might be out of range for me as a replacement for something that already works. I'll keep thinking about a way to get my grubby hands on one of these.

Anyway, here is the video they sent. He didn't really intend for this to go public, but I don't see any reason, and it shows the model 81 (smaller first tuba) in a very good light. I just include this because there's not much good info out there on this builder or his instruments.

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 11:58 am . Can't delete, didn't fit the thread.

Yet we all love you, despite this, MA…

So one of my upcoming project horns will be a bare Melton 182 bugle. What should I do with it? Does the low range of this model tend toward rotary F crappiness, or is it more like the Yamaha 621?

I have thought to make a large tenor tuba out of it, possibly in Ab/G# specifically for Bydlo (because why not?) or perhaps a huge euphonium-length tenor tuba in Bb. If these had known-good low registers (which I cannot seem to nail down) I would just make a new valve section for it and keep it in F. I love the tone. Had my 621 had this tone I would have kept it.

Everyone chime in, here. I need feedback.

(Photo by Tabor Fisher)

the elephant wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:53 pm So one of my upcoming project horns will be a bare Melton 182 bugle. What should I do with it? Does the low range of this model tend toward rotary F crappiness, or is it more like the Yamaha 621?

I have thought to make a large tenor tuba out of it, possibly in Ab/G# specifically for Bydlo (because why not?) or perhaps a huge euphonium-length tenor tuba in Bb. If these had known-good low registers (which I cannot seem to nail down) I would just make a new valve section for it and keep it in F. I love the tone. Had my 621 had this tone I would have kept it.

Everyone chime in, here. I need feedback.

(Photo by Tabor Fisher)

You know me...the "tuning" guy.
I acquired one of those for PARTS.
Before I took it apart (and I wonder if you ended up with the body that I sold off...) it was (sort of, I suppose...??) fun to toot on, but offered (at least, not me) no usable scale. Two or three people (visiting for repair work) picked it up (without even asking), played it, and insisted that I sell it to them.
I told them I would trade it for a brand spankin' new identical valveset (only). I believe they thought I was being "mean", and that I was disassembling a "perfectly good tuba". I don't have problems with producing any F tubas' pitches just a bit below the staff, so that's never an "F tuba non-starter". (I don't know why I don't, but I just don't.)

Don't get me wrong...It's not as horribly out-of-tune as a depression-era Buescher "monster" E-flat, but (in my experience) not all that much better.

advice...?? (bloke's advice is REALLY annoying, isn't it?) Sell that on Frankentubas, pick up a beat-up free-to-$100 (no cracks/no patches) old Yamaha 104, straighten it out really nicely, pick up a (no more than 30-year-old, due to current valve-rebuilding costs) King 2341 valveset (one of those seemingly-shady/bad-pictures eBay auctions, where others are afraid to bid much - or MAYBE EVEN a USA-made .658" valveset - from a cheap/trashed 5J), and make yourself another YFB-621...maybe a "better-than-a" YFB-621 - as an alternate F tuba. You've already got three C's, so...

Bydlo...
I have a really pretty-and-rich-sounding/monstrously-large/easy-tuning/compensating euphonium (which pleases me more than the previous one I owned, which I really liked quite a lot). I also found a forgotten YEP-321 in the attic with good valves. I straightened out the 321, and (with a Schilke 51-NOT-D mouthpiece) used it on (crazy-high tessitura for us guys) "Mars". I would also use the (not-sexy) Yamaha on Bydlo (and same mouthpiece). It offers more zip/clarity, still doesn't sound like a "baritone", is easier to manage in the high range, and requires W-A-Y less practicin' to play stuff in public in the high range. I've heard world-class-sound (but ACTUALLY) people like CSO people demonstrate this solo on NOT-huge euphonia-sized instruments. It sounds better (to me: more resonant/less muffled/more to-the-fore/clearer). Currently, my 321 is loaned out to a "nice guy", but - if/when I need it for a gig - he would return it pronto.

OK...I'm on one of my "just-type-a-bunch-of-crap/too-much-coffee-with-my-lunch" things, here...
my (compensating and very large-bell-section-and-bore) euphonium:
I've used it (two or three times, since I acquired it) in orchestra concerts (suit/tails/etc.) to play stupid-high (when some post-modern idiot-composer decides to write some weird solo/exposed passage up around E or F-sharp, etc.) isolated passages in tuba parts (which are - otherwise - big-contrabass-tuba-appropriate parts). NOT EVEN the bass trombonist (certainly not the music director) said a d@mn word.

(I apologize, and will stop, now.)

Wasn't the French C tuba "the" tuba when Pictures was orchestrated? Or is my memory off here?
And if it was, why are people trying to play this on an instrument way different from that?

And as far as your messing with that thing, of course I know zilch and would believe what bloke said. If you think it would be fun and have nothing else rattling your cage, why not.

the elephant wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:53 pmI have thought to make a large tenor tuba out of it, possibly in Ab/G# specifically for Bydlo (because why not?) or perhaps a huge euphonium-length tenor tuba in Bb. If these had known-good low registers (which I cannot seem to nail down) I would just make a new valve section for it and keep it in F. I love the tone. Had my 621 had this tone I would have kept it.

Everyone chime in, here. I need feedback.

My vote is on the Bb tenor tuba...I've always wanted to hear what a fat 6/4 tenor tuba would sound like. Otherwise I'd probably put it in G like Roger Bobo's G Miraphone, but I can't deny that Ab would be interesting too.

the elephant wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:53 pm
Everyone chime in, here. I need feedback.

Since you're here in my thread, I'll jump in. How about a 5-6 valve Bb thing like the French C tuba? 6/4 tenor tuba with a fat low range. Low gear assist for euph players.

the elephant wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:53 pm (Photo by Tabor Fisher)

I played on one of these for about a year or so of my life.
Low range was surprising for it's tiny footprint, but not stellar. With the right mouthpiece and conviction, it can get a really bright tone that cuts through ensembles like a laser; the right mouthpiece mellowed it out a lot for me, though.
I've never played a 621 in F, but if memory is serving me correctly, these are qualities similar to those I've read about the 621.
Biggest caveat, as bloke mentioned, was the mediocre scale. I can't recall exactly where the horn needed compromises, but I do remember having to do a bit of woodshedding, and find a couple of good alternate fingerings before I was comfortable enough to take it out to small university ensembles such as tuba 1 in tuba Euph ensemble and a tuba quartet. I don't remember using it in an orchestral setting, so I can't comment on it's performance in that regard, unfortunately.

All in all, they are fun tubas, and it's one I wish I had now to tuba by myself in the den. I'd say keep it in F. It contrasts your Kurath enough sonically to be a useful addition to the arsenal. Although, it does appear to have enough cylindrical tubing to try those Ab and G ideas you have. Also, it's .689" rotor bore seems to be a rather common piston size

Yeah. I was thinking an old (but not shot) 2341 piston set and a pair of Miraphone rotors would make this a decent tuba. But I need to fool around with it to see if this one has a usable scale. I think Joe suspects this one to be the one he sold off, and if it was, it was not a good horn.

I guess I'll find out eventually.

yeah...
When that instrument was all together, I was not impressed.

the *YBB-104 body (as I was typing) idea...

As these are remarkably common, not desirable, mostly ugly-brown, usually sport trashed/expensive-to-replace mouthpipe tubes, almost never sport any body/bell cracks, the body is the same as the YFB-621 (which is a pretty darn good tuba), I just wonder one of those (straightened and and cut down to the YFB-621 length) with a cut-to-F .658" bore Conn 5J valveset (from a cheap/beat-up 5J - which is also common), a rotor or two, and a tune-any-note/upward-oriented main slide...might end up being sorta nice (??)
______________________________
*or a missing-all-the-valves YBB-103, which is absolutely hopeless - regarding repairability

bloke "Sell that funky M-W body to someone on ToobNyet. '"

bone-a-phone wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:56 pm I contacted the Jestaedt shop, very nice people. They took the time to make a little comparison video and send it. Very impressed with the extra personal service and the sound of the little tuba. Unfortunately, these look like they might be out of range for me as a replacement for something that already works. I'll keep thinking about a way to get my grubby hands on one of these.

Anyway, here is the video they sent. He didn't really intend for this to go public, but I don't see any reason, and it shows the model 81 (smaller first tuba) in a very good light. I just include this because there's not much good info out there on this builder or his instruments.

Cool horn! Yeah, I don't see that flexing towards the cylindrical spectrum even with a shallow mp. It sounds surprisingly big though.

bone-a-phone wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:23 pm

the elephant wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:53 pm
Everyone chime in, here. I need feedback.

Since you're here in my thread, I'll jump in. How about a 5-6 valve Bb thing like the French C tuba? 6/4 tenor tuba with a fat low range. Low gear assist for euph players.

The very best low range euph I've played is the discontinued Miraphone 1258. No comp range stuffiness, huge fat sound, it even had an oversized receiver that comfortably fit an American shank tuba mp. It was fun playing that with a Bach 18. I had a trade for one lined up with my Getzen 1062 lined up years ago, it was a mutual back out. I would feel confident playing brass quintet on one, either with a tuba mp or a contrabone mp. My Josef Klier KBP2C is a blast in both my Schiller comp euph and Getzen 1062.

OP, an American style baritone might work for you. You can get the leadpipe/receiver swapped out for a bass trombone size, that's what I have on my .562 valved bass thing. 4 front valves, fixed front bell (the removable bell Conn I played was very meh). You could also get a dependent valve or two added the 4th valve tubing, a 4+2 horn would be fun. Check out polka bands that use these as the bass on youtube, some of those guys can really crank. It looks like some of the European horns have 5 and 6 inline valves.

I think the Jimbasso is really what I'm looking for. I guess I need some parts horns. An old F tuba and bell front baritone.

A place to start:
https://www.kanstul.com/instruments/g-b ... ium-bugle/

This Jestadt builder is really something else. Someone earlier pointed to a bell that Øystein Baadsvik was using that had two collars on it. It turns out this is a stackable system. Øystein's horn looks to be a miraphone.

You can put the main body of the tuba in a euphonium sized case, and then stack the bell throat inside the flare in a separate case. Maybe I'm just impressed by this because I'm a trombone player, and haven't seen it before.

Again he made this video just for me (uses my name in the beginning), but I'm posting it here since there is nothing really incriminating or proprietary. These people are worth some business.

I believe Baadsvik plays a portable version of the Star Light. Has a very compact case; I have wondered if those two collars add some substance to the instrument, because I and some others have far preferred the NStar to the Star Light.

Also, the Jestadt people use the word "tubechen" a lot. I can't get a good translation of this. Does it just mean "little tuba" or "tuba shaped thing"?