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Particular beginning in the 1980s - after I wasn't in school bands anymore, the drum corps craze really caught on with high school bands, and I believe the emphasis (okay, not everywhere but...) went from students being able to read and interpret music - without being coached on how things are supposed to sound - to a great deal of rote teaching.

I believe I'm seeing a lot of people in some community bands having been the victim of that, and having to be rote taught an awful lot in rehearsals.

A final comment on this is that these days when I walk into some of the band rooms where really fine sounding bands are rehearsing, I'm discovering that every student in the band is getting private instruction. That's pretty amazing, and I hope there's more emphasis on self-reliance and the ability to interpret, rather than simply having private teachers also engage in mostly rote teaching.

also band: Stars & Stripes Forever

I can play this in my sleep, and enjoy it every time.

When our band has used ringers in the past, we've worked very hard to sustain the community aspect of the band. We do not have auditions, but we do program challenging music that tends to encourage improvement from those who need it and suggest to those unwilling to improve to find another group. Putting ringers in principal positions 1.) assumes we have principals (we don't) and 2.) undermines the experience for those who can and will show up every week. That experience is worth more than technical perfection, and often redounds to greater musical enthusiasm, which is itself infectious.

So, ringers, when we use them, are asked to play supporting roles, which enable the regular members to play the solo licks, etc., without having to worry about the section parts that surround it. Occasionally, nobody in the section wants the pressure of the solo and they ask the ringer to cover it, but I can't remember the last time that happened.

When we used ringers more, their presence made it possible for us to play literature that needed someone in the gaps we had. All of us appreciated that.

Rick "always seeking the balance between musically challenging and technically acceptable" Denney

It seems to me that community bands can concentrate on one of two things.

- having fun and socializing
- playing really well

JUST TO BE REALLY CLEAR IN MY OWN VIEWS: If someone tries to tell me that so-called "amateurs" can't play really well, I'm calling b.s. immediately.
SOME amateurs DON'T play really well because they don't work on their parts (or not very much) between rehearsals, and they probably also don't use tools such as tuners, metronomes, and really great youtube videos (with which they could play along). These things are all ALSO true with some "professionals" (musicians who play mostly for remuneration).
amateur - for the love of it
professional - ie. a profession / for remuneration
(Please don't try to complicate these very simple and matter-of-fact definitions. Encouraging someone to "be more professional" is an insult to all who play for the love of it - including those who do so for the love of it and also do it for remuneration.)

- Auditioning principals (and even paying them a very small stipend - and also auditioning all other "chairs") is going to cause friction.
- "Getting on to" people at rehearsals to play better (even if not individually targeted) is also going to cause friction, and the director will inevitably be referred to by some as "mean".

It does seem to me that ONLY auditioning principal chairs (whether-or-not they're given $10 or $20 per rehearsal, and expected to do things - whether to earn a very modest stipend or simply be the principal) would cause the LEAST friction and the LEAST amount of emotional upheaval - with the other chairs sorting themselves out. If someone in a section continues to scuffle - and continues to be politely/quietly encouraged/corrected by a principal player (as well as the director) - they might be encouraged to move on to some other hobby in which they would engage with more fervor, dedication, and enthusiasm.

It just seems to me that at LEAST 2/3rds of MOST community band (yes?) would like to (whether or not they currently are) perform very well, and would like for others in their bands to do so as well.

Patrons (whether concerts are free or cost to attend) like to hear "good", can tell a difference between "good" and "ok", and are not-in-the-least interested in petty intra-ensemble intrigue/politics...(Would everyone agree - at least - with the previous sentence?)

Rick Denney wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:21 am When our band has used ringers in the past, we've worked very hard to sustain the community aspect of the band. We do not have auditions, but we do program challenging music that tends to encourage improvement from those who need it and suggest to those unwilling to improve to find another group. Putting ringers in principal positions 1.) assumes we have principals (we don't) and 2.) undermines the experience for those who can and will show up every week. That experience is worth more than technical perfection, and often redounds to greater musical enthusiasm, which is itself infectious.

So, ringers, when we use them, are asked to play supporting roles, which enable the regular members to play the solo licks, etc., without having to worry about the section parts that surround it. Occasionally, nobody in the section wants the pressure of the solo and they ask the ringer to cover it, but I can't remember the last time that happened.

When we used ringers more, their presence made it possible for us to play literature that needed someone in the gaps we had. All of us appreciated that.

Rick "always seeking the balance between musically challenging and technically acceptable" Denney

I've mentioned this before, but this is sort of what we did in my aforementioned community band when we got Mark Ridenour, asst. principal trumpet of the Chicago Symphony, to sit in, "in the section," and I am not entirely sure that everyone knew who he was. And the section sounded great!

I said before that he wasn't featured, but now that I think of it, there was a spot with Vince DiMartino, Vince's son Gabriel, and Mark playing Bugler's Holiday on that concert.

A little different than Rick's example since it was a one-off for a performance, and not a constant ringer presence.

Years ago, Mark was principal in Memphis for a year (then 2nd, and then he moved on to another orchestra...somewhere in Florida...?)

I played a bunch of quintet gigs with him as well as in the orchestra from time-to-time.

Mark was looking for extra money - when here - so when I was installing a wood floor in one of our past houses, I had him help me with that.

I'm thinking that - when Mark left - is when Ryan Anthony showed up (or perhaps a bit later). Russ DeVuyst (retired principal trumpet - Montreal) was also in Memphis for a few years, as well as John Clouser (principal bassoonist - Cleveland Orchestra). I played racketball with John, and - when my daughter was passing through Cleveland on a trip, years ago - she stayed at his home. A bunch of really great players have "passed through" Memphis, over the years.

Mark Ridenour has some really great arranging skills...
I'm thinking that REALLY early in his CSO career, "Bud" had to take off for a Mahler 5 concert, and one of Mark's VERY early concerts with them was serving as principal, playing that Symphony.

Tubeast wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:37 am Scheduled in community band too often: Jupiter Hymn (arrangement taken from G.Holst´s "Planets", somewhat scaled down to make it manageable by us hobbyist band musicians) Never scheduled: any of the other movements of the same work.

I´m not qualified to answer the original question due to lack of exposition to long works of music that will contribute to the "greatest hits" of classical music.

We've done "Mars". Can't remember which transcription, but it went over quite well.

Some jump to mind:
Brahms Sym 1
Kalinnikov Sym 1
Bizet Sym in C major
Pulcinella Suite
Dvorak 6

Some symphonies jump to mind that are played way too often: Dvorak 9, Tchaik 4, Beethoven 5/7