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I didn't like the 494 in the video clips. It was obviously played very well, but I thought it sounded underpowered even for the small ensembles. Or possibly, exactly the right size for those small ensembles, but in the it's a nice 3/4 kind of way.

Based on my experience with the Martin medium e-flat tuba, I've been hoping to find, but have not found, a similar medium b flat tuba. It's a really nice size with a really nice sound. But again, although the exist, they're hard to find to say the least

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:06 pm
I see a lot of positive comments about the 496. I'm glad Miraphone has another apparent commercial success.

One of these days I’m going to make good on my threat bring my 496 to blokeplace to get you to take the dents out of the bottom bow. And to find where I want to move to in America.

Don

That 494 looks and sounds great! Kinda looks and sounds like a smaller 191. A piston version would be interesting.

BramJ wrote:Didn't play one, but maybe the Josef Lidl Moldau?

I agree. They are very nice looking horns. Never played one. Daniel Ridder posted a video testing one out a while back. Of course, Daniel is amazing, so it's hard to tell how it would be for an average joe. Only heard one other review by an older fella who needed a smaller lighter horn for his regular dixieland gig. He said its fantastic.

Sent from my SM-S367VL using Tapatalk

I think they are just the BBb version of the PT-20. Or, the 20 is the CC version of this horn. Who came first?

They look to be identical other than that loop in the leadpipe for the most part. I owned one for several years and just loved it.

I always assumed the the piston pt20p (4197) and rotary pt20p (4097) was made in CC first since VMI/B&S never made the 3301/2 BBb with all rotary valves. And the way B&S lengthened the leadpipe, tuning slides, and ferrules too.

Although, the B&S 3301 BBb and the Wilson Canadian Brass BBb? (I don't know the model number) are the only tubas that I am aware that a CC tuba was lengthened to BBb.

Usually, most older CC tubas where shortened BBb's, until CC's started to get more popular.

That particular Wilson model is awful, the VMI/B&S 3301 on the other hand is incredible.

I would wager some money (that I could afford to lose) that the PT-20 came first, because the inner bows look just like that communist-era piggy-style B&S C tuba which was just about the earliest C tuba I ever saw made by that plant.. handmade. It featured the same five bore sizes as the Symphonie F tuba, and was actually also engraved Symphonie, but it was squatty. I believe the low digit PT C tubas used the same bugle and were altered with larger bore rotary valves, piston valves, and larger bell flares. The tuning was challenging on that original handmade five rotor bores Symphonie C model, and remained challenging (in my experience) on the C models to which I refer.

Never mind HRender already posted the Lidl. But I actually got to play one, and it's a really nice horn.

I Am very close to making this purchase.

It's tricky because it will be the most expensive musical instrument I've ever bought. An upgrade for sure over what I have but I have lived a long life of playing inexpensive instruments, and settling for "very good for the money" instead of "freaking amazing"

LeMark wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:06 pm

Kevbach33 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 3:14 pm https://www.baltimorebrasscompany.com/p ... -tuba.aspx

It says 3/4 in the title, but I'm fairly certain the 18 is chunkier than the 2011RA. They also say "compact 4/4" in the description.

That one is one I would love to try

I don't know if 6500 is the original price but it is still there...

I don't have a lot of experience with the MW18, but I played it a few times, and used to play next to a person who had one of them.

I would say that it's neither over nor underwhelming, and is very much just, it's a tuba. I think 20 years ago, they cost a lot less money, and were probably a much better value.

I'm not sure how much it offers above and beyond or differently from a 186, but it's just pretty much a shorter and easier to hold tuba and I don't recall it being exceptional or deficient in any way.

I figured that one was a little too close to my packer 379b, which I've decided to keep playing for now.

The Melton/MW 20 was the 186 competitor:

http://yorkmaster.org/yorkmaster/photos ... index.html

The M-W 20's were heavy for their size...and/but that was back when Americans perceived thin-wall tubas as "cheap".

I still can't shake the thought of getting a 494, but I wont act on it until after I play one next month either at the Army workshop or TMEA

in the meantime.... here's some hagen fun

Mark,
in an earlier post You mentioned the Melton 2011 RA.
I´m using its FA sibling, which at 17 mm bore definitely is on the small end of 3/4 tubas bordering to 2/4.
But it sounds bigger than it looks, and sure provides LOTS of fun and a solid "bark" if needed.

I like to use it when I´m the only tuba in "Bauernkapelle" (12-16 piece polka band).
Still I´m not sure it meets your specifications...

That's probably number 2 on my "would love to try list"

I hope I can find one at either of the 2 conferences I'm attending in the next month

LeMark wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 1:46 pm I edited my post. I should add I want something with a full rich tone. No 3/4 instruments

I found this....

Looks like fun

The Howard Johnson (Mahillon) knockoff whereby - originally with top action pistons - they didn't have the marketing courage to copy the 16mm bore, put a 17mm bore on it instead, and then - when it didn't sell - pasted a run-of-the-mill rotary valveset on it..and didn't they also flip it around and stick their every-other-model's-bore piston valveset on it?