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the elephant wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 5:04 pm Now I have to purchase a new computer, permanently isolate it from the Internet, and freeze the OS and Finale pretty much forever.

Take a look at Parallels for mac. You can snapshot an macOS or windows install with an intact finale installation, save it as a file, then run it as a virtual computer and keep it isolated from the internet while still having internet access in your main machine. You can even back it up so that if something breaks you have a pristine copy of the original (activated) installation to go back to.
I'm sure there's other software that accomplishes the same thing, like Docker, but being a windows/Linux user I'm not familiar with all the Mac software.
Should save you the hassle and expense of a whole new machine.

Edit: followup for other users: virtualbox or hyper-V will allow you to do the same thing with Windows (you can have the virtual machine be a windows 10 or even older version) and QEMU/KVM is a good solution for Linux hosts.

Thats the best way to go!
You can always keep that virtual machine around and working, just make sure you have a good (multiple, not only in your house) backup

Finale checks the SN of the computer it is installed on against the list maintained on the MM servers. The good thing about Parallels is that the VM generates a virtual SN, and when you use it - on any computer - it retains that virtual SN, so Finale stays authorized even when used within the VM even when carried over to other machines.

I have no idea what any of you are talking about with this virtual machine stuff. Where can I find the course for dummies, and would it be easier (and less complicated) than learning Dorico?

A "VM" is running an OS in an emulation program. You can. install a VM and run it like you have a different computer. Some programs do this better than others. Some OS brands are better at this than others. I would run a VM set up as my current computer. It would be assigned a spoofed serial number to report back to MakeMusic's authorization software when I entered my key. I already have three installs, so I would have to delist one of them from the MM server and delete Finale from that computer. Then my new VM would be seen as a legal install. (No smoke and mirrors, here — it would be completely legal.)

Then, this VM environment could be saved and carried over to whatever computer I want, and so long as I save a backup copy that is known-good if it later gets corrupted and no longer boots, or Finale gets corrupted, I can delete it and start over with the saved copy. So long as I do not allow the VM access to the Internet so that the OS does not try to update on me, it will stay valid. I would not need a dedicated machine because it would run in emulation. Today this can be as fast as running natively. (in decades past running an emulation required the VM to be fairly recent and for a less powerful machine and OS or it would bog down and have all sorts of latency issues.

It is a bit of a deep dive into a dark pit, but once you get set up and do some experimentation it is pretty easy to do.

Wade "or so I have been told" Rackley

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:24 am I have no idea what any of you are talking about with this virtual machine stuff. Where can I find the course for dummies, and would it be easier (and less complicated) than learning Dorico?

https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/set ... virtualbox

Welp, he says Mac OS is impossible.

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:42 am Welp, he says Mac OS is impossible.

This gives steps to run a MacOS VM on VirtualBox: https://www.wikihow.com/Install-Macos-o ... al-Machine

This lays out other VM options to run on a Mac host: https://setapp.com/how-to/how-to-use-vi ... ine-on-mac
This does likewise: https://www.macworld.com/article/668848 ... r-mac.html

I've used VMs hosted by different platforms (mostly Windows or Linux running on VMWare), and they're fine. I'm using one now. I've not set up a VM host for personal use since I don't have a screaming need for it, and I spend all day on a computer for my job anyway.

I will never forget the first time a supervisor showed me how virtual machines work; how cool they are. It blew my mind. They are a total IT game changer. Even though I have been retired for a few years now, I still maintain an HP server at home just so I can play with them. Before VM's, if you wanted to spool up a new server to play with you had to go looking around the PC boneyard for a machine that still worked. At the library I worked at I used to keep a number of old PC's around just for this purpose.

With VM's, you enter a few key strokes to crank up a new VM and away you go. Want to do an upgrade that might totally bork your machine? Snapshot it and there's no risk at all. Any trouble and you just roll back to your last snapshot. Your hardware is dying? Just move the VM to another physical server. And you don't even need your own hardware. You can run virtual machines from a whole bunch of vendor's servers. Just thinking about it all makes me almost wish I was still working.

So ideally here's my optimal path: my old dead Mac Pro had finale 2005b on it and I have the install disks, although they are not mine originally but were lent to me by someone no longer with us. Assuming I could install with my own license, what I would want to do with a VM is whatever Mac OS works with 2005b, use that, install 2005b because it does everything I need, and forget about all the whoop-de-do. I don't know if that is even possible.

Edit: isn't the dead Mac Pro that has 2005b on it -- it is the truely ancient iMac still somewhat living but partially failing hard drive that has 2005b. Finale has been back up for many years and the machine just sits. I could probably fire it up and find out what the OS is.

I believe I tried SheepShaver back in the '90s, albeit not for anything useful that I recall. It appears to still be around, so if there's any interest in going back to MacOS pre-X as a virtual experience, that may be an option. It seems to me it involved using a pirated ROM image.

It looks to me like the serial number value is a user option, on some VMs - including Parallels running on Intel hardware, but not on the new ARM hardware.

So on the Intel box, one could get SN from firmware of licensed machine, configure VM to use that SN, "re"install, and you're already licensed.

On the ARM box, though, not only can you not do that, but the explanation makes me wonder if your SN here might be coming from the hardware, in which case this particular virtue of virtual is invalid. See Known limitations of macOS virtual machines on Mac computers with Apple silicon. I just glanced at it myself. The issue is that they're running on top of Applie's "virtualization framework" and the serial number comes from down there. If you have a test procedure of some kind that can report serial number, it might be interesting to try a VM on two different M series Macs, to verify that the SN really is a property of the VM and not the firmware - it would be a shame to find out too late.

Well, this morning I received an e-mail announcing the upgrade to Finale. Could this company be any more screwed up?

Trivia: VMs have been around at least since the 70s. I took my first programming class in '81 on a mainframe running IBM VM/370. Before that there were machine emulators most used (at least so I was told) to facilitate testing of embedded systems.

Mac Mini's a are relatively cheap - under $600 for a base spec new one. Put a $5 HDMI "virtual" screen dongle on it, and you can access it from other macs on the local network via screen sharing with pretty good performance. (I screen share into my personal Mini from my work laptop -- over the local network -- and am able to do things like watch Youtube videos, so peformance is good). With the headless HDMI dongle you can access the full range of screen resolutions and it also tricks it into using the GPU. Once it's configure this way it can sit headless on a shelf somewhere.

Duplicate the drive to an external drive now and then as a backup, and you should be able to restore to the as-activated configuration if the internal drive ever dies.

I am happy with Lilypond. For those who want a comparision between Finale and Lilypond, see here http://www.musicbyandrew.ca/finale-lilypond-1.html

There is also Rosegarden and Frescobaldi, a GUI for Lilypond

Huh. For new files, I find myself intrigued by Lilypond, which I had heard of but didn't know what it was. (I went and looked at the beginnings of the tutorials.)

When I either transcribe from something I hear or write down new melodies from my head, I actually use a notation similar to this that I made up, by hand on a piece of plain paper. Obviously not readable by a computer but I know what it means. It's just positional note names without drawing a staff but with bar lines and beams.

I think anyone with a programming background would pick up Lilypond really fast -- much faster and easier than Musescore, for me. Since I'm a notator and not an engraver, this may be my best bet for anything new, and my mind is interested instead of anticipating frustration. Doesn't fix the transfer problem though.