Tracking Devices

[the elephant]

Personally, I would just use the one. I think the maker wants to use one on each valve for the sake of uniformity. Right now, though, in gray plastic, I think four would attract more attention, where one just looks like some weird custom tchotchkes. I have some testing to do.

Here is his original version, without the cap. The tag is in there next to the brass bearing. The version I posted above was my initial suggestion to him as an alternative.

… unless prototype II accommodates a way to install the those stop-gap center screws below the tracking device.

I believe I addressed that in the post you responded to.

[bloke]

I might be talking sh!t (because I really do NOT know), but I'm thinking that copper can be plated on to (even) plastic, and - of course - nickel will plate on to copper.

OK...the goog to the rescue:

How do you electroplate plastic?
There are two methods to plate plastic: One is to roughen the surface to allow metal to adhere. Then electroplate over that layer to build up layers of metal. This process is called electroless, auto-catalytic or chemical plating. The second method is to apply conductive paint to the plastic, then electroplate it.

paint > copper > nickel may seem somewhat tenuous, but - well... - most tuba folks don't fiddle with their rotor caps, very often.

[the elephant]

Caswell to the rescue!

[kingrob76]

If these were black a non-musician wouldn't even think twice about them.

[djwpe]

I might be talking sh!t (because I really do NOT know), but I'm thinking that copper can be plated on to (even) plastic, and - of course - nickel will plate on to copper.

OK...the goog to the rescue:

How do you electroplate plastic?
There are two methods to plate plastic: One is to roughen the surface to allow metal to adhere. Then electroplate over that layer to build up layers of metal. This process is called electroless, auto-catalytic or chemical plating. The second method is to apply conductive paint to the plastic, then electroplate it.

paint > copper > nickel may seem somewhat tenuous, but - well... - most tuba folks don't fiddle with their rotor caps, very often.

The process is called “metalizing” which I believe is a chemical deposition of a thin metal layer onto anything. My uncle owned a patent for a metalizing process at one time. His line when asked what could be metailized was “anything you want, even dog Shirt.”

Don

[bloke]

Speaking of which...

It was SO COLD a few days ago...


HOW COLD WAS IT ???


It was SO COLD a few days ago, that I rolled my ankle on a dog turd.

[the elephant]

The "chromed" wheels, bumpers, valve covers, and other bits on model cars are actually metalized, and have been since the 1950s or so when that industry first introduced it, but I suspect that they just stole it from some other industrial application. The process is called vacuum metalizing.

https://www.vacuum-metalizing.com/what- ... etalizing/

[retiredtuba]

Thanks very much to "the elephant" for sharing his thoughts a pictures of the valve cap extender. My original prototypes were going down the road of completely replace the valve cap, but he had the brilliant idea of reusing the existing nickel cap and have just a sleeve extension.

Yes, the idea is to have four of them so that the valves all look identical to make it less conspicuous. Here's a photo with the sleeve installed on the 5th valve of my CC.



I still very new to this forum so I hope I can use the shared iCloud link for the photos. If that doesn't work, I'd very much appreciate any advice on how to post photos.

The extenders are most visible from the side. They are completely hidden from the front or the back.



After taking this picture it seemed to me that they might be less conspicuous if the color was closer to brass than nickel, so I painted them with some Krylon Brass spray paint. I've sent those to "the elephant" and look forward to what he thinks of the result.

I will be posting the files necessary to 3D print the sleeves on thingiverse.com so that anyone can download and print them. I will probably get that post up by the end of next week. I will post here when it's available. It's also possible to have things 3D printed. craftcloud3d.com offers a service where you can submit a file to be printed and get quotes from a variety of folks.

I'm also happy to make a few sets for those interested. It takes me a few hours to make a set, so I can't make a lot of them, but I will try to respond to any inquiries. This is a very creative community - any suggestions are appreciated.

[retiredtuba]

Thanks very much to Forum Administrator Mark for steering me in the right direction about posting photos.

Here's a photo of the valve extender sleeve mount on the 5th valve of my tuba because that makes it easier to see without being buried in all the plumbing.



Here's a side view with sleeves mounted on all four valves. This is the only direction from which the sleeves are visible. From either the back or the font, they cannot be seen.

[bloke]

Everyone is going to have an opinion about visuals.
- I don’t believe I would put one on the fifth valve at all.
- I believe I would go to the trouble of nickel plating them, and probably put four of them on the backside of the instrument as shown.

As they are not all that expensive, maybe two, three, or four of them could be placed in the instrument, just in case of possible failure of any of the others. (??)

[retiredtuba]

I agree that no one would install it on the 5th valve. I did that only so that I could photograph it clearly. Otherwise, they can only be seen from the side.



After seeing them installed on my tuba, I thought they might be less conspicuous painted with a metallic brass color. I will try that the next time I print a set. As "the elephant" mentioned, my thought was having all four valves look identical would be less conspicuous, but others may feel that only one would be just fine.

As promised, I've posted the STL files on thingiverse.com so that anyone can download and print them.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5220987

The threads and size are specific to my Miraphone CC 186 5U. I don't have access to any other tuba to try them out on so I have no idea if they will fit any other tuba.

I hope others may find this useful and I would very much appreciate any suggestions.

[the elephant]

I have found that these do not fit with the lower 5th slide of a modern 186, except on the rear-facing 5th valve. On an older 186 with the flat M3 5th the routing is different and I believe you could put on on any of the four back-facing valves. I will install the one with the set screw onto my 186 tonight or tomorrow to try it out.

Note to Rick: The set screw, as it is on the one you sent me, is very clever. However, when you adjust the screw it presses against the cap, so your nut needs to be on the inside of the space between the rear bearing plate and your container. that way, when any sort of pressure is applied to the set screw the glued nut will press into its hole, so the void for the nut will keep it in place. As it is, the glue alone retains the nut. Apply a small bit of pressure to the tip of the set screw and the nut will likely pop loose, as the direction of the pressure is to the open side of the nut's housing. Have a look at this…

[retiredtuba]

Thanks for your comments. I will try printing one the way you suggest. I don't know if the 3D printer can make the bridge over the void, but it might and the result would be superior as you describe. I printed it with the nut retained in a 3mm thick disc which is CA glued to the bottom of the top section. That's quite a large glue surface and the CA is quite strong, so I don't know how vulnerable it is. Printed as a separate piece, the nut retaining disc is able to be printed with no overhangs. I'm starting to work with a new filament from PolyMaker called Tough PLA. Every material is different in it's ability to span voids and if it works, it would be much better.

Thanks!!

[bloke]

This is indeed some impressive work, but/and seems to me that it only supplies a concealment strategy for one make of instrument and four models from that maker (86b 86c 87 88).

Without criticizing any of this marvelous work, the fact above - combined with me practically being stuck in the bed for quite a few days - has prompted me to think further.

I’m now conceiving of a fake strap ring soldered to the back of the instrument – perhaps at the center of the bottom bow on the back side…
…and sure: it could replace an existing strap ring.
To any voodoo-embracers (ie. “affects the sound”), I don’t believe that I would hesitate to do this to any of my instruments, none of my instruments are for sale, and all are precious to me. Obviously, the soldering would need to be done very nicely.

I believe I would start with a hollow brass tube with at least a .100” wall thickness and (??) something like (prior to custom fitting to the instrument) 3/16” taller than the Apple device. One end of that tube would be installer-ground in on two sides to imitate the curvature of the bottom bow, The other end would be inside-threaded to accept a (ok: 1/8” thick) fine-threaded round lid, and a low profile strap ring could serve as a wing screw for a round threaded lid concealing the hollow space.
It would need to be well-made enough so as the lid (with the strap ring brazed to said lid) screwed down flush with the sides and with absolutely no visual traces of threading.

I’m not going to defend this idea has any sort of be-all/end-all, but I think it’s a good idea, and it’s a good idea to keep considering ways to accomplish the primary goal.

That having been said, I do believe that my idea represents a bit more simplicity well as at least as much believability - in regards to “looking like something that belongs on the instrument“.

Just be aware that any of the Casanova tuba players out there can’t be two-timing spouses/significant others (between-rehearsal romances, etc.) with something like this tracking device on board.

[retiredtuba]

Ingenious ideas!

Note to Wade: If you get a chance to try it on your tuba that has a set screw in the valve cap - if possible would you please measure the length of the set screw? I'm assuming the diameter is an M3, but if you think it's much different and have a chance to measure the diameter as well, that would be great.

[bloke]

Those screws are indeed M3.

[kingrob76]

Turns out the AirTag uses a stands 2032 watch battery and is indeed replaceable. Apple's support website does indeed detail the process for resetting the AirTag which includes replacing the battery (if so desired)

[Schlitzz]

Yeah, the 4 pack is a good choice for the viola players. Case, keys, car, and the house.

[the elephant]

I have been way too busy to work on my AT housing for my horns. I have had to stop testing the very nice 3D-printed rotary valve AT case we have been working on. But I am still using them in all my gig bags and in one car.

This story popped up today.

https://www.cnn.com/cnn-underscored/tra ... Pcontainer

@retiredtuba — I have used one of these on my 186 since you sent them to me. For my personal horn, I can only install the caps on the 5th or 4th valves as the rear, lower 5th slide interferes. I think this will be the case on all modern (flat-whole-step 5th) 186 CC tubas. I do not know about the BBb 186s, though. Also, the cap fits the rotors on my Holton 345 and Kurath F tuba, as these are all Miraphone products and use the same cap despite having different bore sizes. Interference on these is not an issue as the valves are removable.

So I think this is a great idea. I am sorry that I dropped off the face of the planet, but again, I have been quite busy. I hope you are well, sir!

[Mary Ann]

If I had had one of those in my violin case, there would have been a different story.