Miraphone F tuba update

[bloke]

Tuba version of:

-- break up with girlfriend
-- meet someone new
-- of course the new gal is awesome because she's not gal #1
-- run into the gal #1 a few weeks later
-- "hey, she ain't so bad after all!"
-- split with gal #2
-- then you and gal #1 try to work it out, but soon remember the old ways...
-- 60/40 chance you won't stick around with gal #1 very long
-- [ring ring] hello, gal #2...?

This is getting off-topic... Of course, that never-EVER happens here, does it?

bloke "I always dated girls who did NOT go to the same school that I attended...It was WAY less work (Most of the girls at my school wanted to marry their boyfriends right after graduation, and expected their boyfriends to immediately get a job at Firestone, Kimberly-Clark, Purina, Quaker Oats, one of the railroads, or as a cop)...If anyone at my own school wondered whether I was 'gay'...so what?"

[jtm]

Hi-
I realize this makes no sense, but I have played Miraphone/Mirafone F tubas that had a screaming sharp middle C, and once the lead pipe was removed/'floating' from the bell, the C was 95% improved....
Mark

Maybe that's the trick for the 181 version that looked like a PT-10; it has a removable (hence "floating") lead pipe.

[jtm]

Well, it's out the door now, on its way to an adventurous student who wants to try the rotary-F-with-supersharp-C experience. I pointed to this thread as a cautionary tale, but he's still interested, so that's great.

@bort2.0 mentioned that it's unusual to have two old versions of Miraphone 181 in the same place, so here they are. On the right is the topic of this thread, a tuba that bort2.0 reckoned was either a very early 81 or a prototype. On the left is the early version of 181 that looked a lot like a PT-10. It used to have the off-white miniball links. Bore through the valves is the same on both of these, and the bell looks about the same (to me).

[bloke]

My experience with those B&S PT-10/15 Miraphone knockoffs is that the rotors were so massive that it was difficult to get them to move as fast as some music notes written on pieces of paper.

When Miraphone opened up sales to individual stores (rather than having one exclusive USA importer) I bought one of those from the former exclusive importer (new). It was the last one they had. I sure was purdy. I drilled material out of the tops and bottoms of the rotor bodies - attempting to speed them up, but it didn't seem to help much, because the surface-to-surface contact remained the same.

[bort2.0]

Congratulations to both you and the buyer!

The two best days of owning a tuba are the day you buy it the day you sell it. Thankfully, those days coincide exactly for two different people every single time.

But really, I thought it was a really fun tuba. And in that condition, I don't think you'll ever find something like that for that kind of price I'm glad it's going somewhere where it will be used a lot and many people will get to hear it

[jtm]

My experience with those B&S PT-10/15 Miraphone knockoffs is that the rotors were so massive that it was difficult to get them to move as fast as some music notes written on pieces of paper.

Oh great; now I have another thing to worry about.

These seem about the same as rotors on the '80s 188. They don't feel as quick as the new Firebird I tried at TMEA, but they move fast enough for all the parts I'm likely to see for a while.

[cjk]

My experience with those B&S PT-10/15 Miraphone knockoffs is that the rotors were so massive that it was difficult to get them to move as fast as some music notes written on pieces of paper.

When Miraphone opened up sales to individual stores (rather than having one exclusive USA importer) I bought one of those from the former exclusive importer (new). It was the last one they had. I sure was purdy. I drilled material out of the tops and bottoms of the rotor bodies - attempting to speed them up, but it didn't seem to help much, because the surface-to-surface contact remained the same.

Ironically, when I sold that particular tuba, the buyer commented on how fast the valves were. They eventually wore in and worked well. That one was a pretty good F tuba.

[bort2.0]

Now that John has sold his tuba, time for a second chance offering...



The one at Horn Guys is still for sale. Not as pretty, same weird 5th valve setup, and same overall dimensions (I *think* that's what Noah told me). Anyway, if ya want it, it's there...

[Mary Ann]

Bison tuba said, I think:

I realize this makes no sense, but I have played Miraphone/Mirafone F tubas that had a screaming sharp middle C, and once the lead pipe was removed/'floating' from the bell, the C was 95% improved....
-------------
To me, that seems to be yet another "F tuba node problem" that this time was easily fixed by removing the bad node, just like the guy who dropped his mouthpiece and created the needed new node for the low C. This repeatedly makes me wish Rick Denney were a tuba designer because he would be able to FIX this stuff. Walter Lawson also could have, and would have, fixed this stuff.

[bloke]

My experience with those B&S PT-10/15 Miraphone knockoffs is that the rotors were so massive that it was difficult to get them to move as fast as some music notes written on pieces of paper.

When Miraphone opened up sales to individual stores (rather than having one exclusive USA importer) I bought one of those from the former exclusive importer (new). It was the last one they had. I sure was purdy. I drilled material out of the tops and bottoms of the rotor bodies - attempting to speed them up, but it didn't seem to help much, because the surface-to-surface contact remained the same.

Ironically, when I sold that particular tuba, the buyer commented on how fast the valves were. They eventually wore in and worked well. That one was a pretty good F tuba.

' good to hear !

[jtm]

Bison tuba said, I think:

I realize this makes no sense, but I have played Miraphone/Mirafone F tubas that had a screaming sharp middle C, and once the lead pipe was removed/'floating' from the bell, the C was 95% improved....
-------------
To me, that seems to be yet another "F tuba node problem" that this time was easily fixed by removing the bad node, just like the guy who dropped his mouthpiece and created the needed new node for the low C. This repeatedly makes me wish Rick Denney were a tuba designer because he would be able to FIX this stuff. Walter Lawson also could have, and would have, fixed this stuff.

My latest Miraphone F, which has a nice middle C and a bugle that looks very similar to the recently departed tuba with a sharp C (see picture above), also has a changeable lead pipe, so it's attached to the bell by two small posts rather than a few inches of solder. Coincidence? I won't be attaching it more firmly just to find out.

[Rick Denney]

…This repeatedly makes me wish Rick Denney were a tuba designer because he would be able to FIX this stuff.

That is a fantasy, for sure.

For one thing, really knowing where the nodes are is not easy. Effective atmospheric pressure and therefore the speed of sound changes as the conical bugle expands, and the locations of the resonance nodes depend on that. The Germans have software that calculates all this using numerical methods, but with imperfect results. Traditionally, it’s determined experimentally.

Rick “never owned a tuba that improved with dents” Denney

[bloke]

When I just about have a tuba figured out, I'm going to put a random dent in it, and claim that the dent is what is causing me to be playing it a bit better.

To go a bit farther, I could record myself right now (with some fairly vicious flu symptoms), and then record myself again two weeks from now (hopefully: recovered), after subsequently denting the instrument (or - at least - photoshopping a dent, because who wants dents?)

[Mary Ann]

I do have another "real" dent story. A friend had a Conn 28D that had, she said, started to apparently get too old to play well because it had become a struggle. For no particular reason, she had a bell branch dent taken out, and suddenly her horn was playing like it used to. (She was a pro, and not imagining the difference.) Clearly a node problem. Makes me wonder if it is worth-de-denting the dents in the bell branch of my Eb. I don't care how it looks, but if it is affecting playability, how would I know?

Yeah, @Rick Denney your retirement project is now at hand -- fix those silly rotary F tuba tapers!!

[Rick Denney]

I’m not retired just yet…

My current project is repairing the battered old Giardinelli 101 I bought at the Army conference.

The good money is on me doing more harm than good.

Rick “has pulled off the bottom bow and guards so far, and roughly pushed out most of the big dents” Denney

[tofu]

.

[Mary Ann]

Well that makes me think that if I do find someone to de-dent my 183, I better have a really good measurement of where those dents are and how deep they are, in case I want to put them back.

[Paulver]

I'm a bit late to the party, so..... what model is the Miraphone F that you're talking about??

I'm very curious as I'm sort of deciding whether to get an F for myself. I really like my present Miraphone 186, so I'm naturally considering the same brand. Price will be a limiting factor in the final decision.

[Mary Ann]

Unless you want a considerable learning curve with rotary F tubas, get a piston one. IMHO having been there done that.

[Paulver]

Mary Ann: I've already been using a rotary 186 for several years. Having no idea of what you mean, please elaborate on what you're talking about. Not trying to be a smart *ss. I just don't know what you mean by that statement.