Balancing Breathing Technique and Embouchure Development

[jipox60120]

Hey guys........

I have been playing tuba for a few years now, and one of the ongoing challenges I face is finding the right balance between my breathing technique and embouchure development. Recently, I've noticed that when I focus more on expanding my breath capacity, my embouchure seems to suffer a bit, especially when tackling faster, more intricate passages. On the flip side, when I concentrate on improving my embouchure—especially endurance during longer playing sessions—it feels like my breathing becomes less efficient, and I run out of air quicker than I'd like.

I am curious to hear from other players: how do you manage to balance these two important aspects of tuba playing? Do you have specific exercises or routines that have helped you simultaneously develop both strong breathing technique and a resilient embouchure? I’ve been doing a combination of long tones and scales, but I feel like I might be missing something to bridge the gap.

Also, I check thissome people by discounting the thought-by-some-to-be-overwhelmingruby how do you approach this balance when transitioning from slow, lyrical pieces to fast, technically demanding ones? I’ve had particular trouble keeping the embouchure stable during faster pieces while maintaining a steady airflow.

Would love to hear your tips, insights, and personal experiences! Any exercises or methods that have worked for you would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[bloke]

I believe the Jacobs man was quite clever and smart, and even though he strove to teach himself about how things work in the human body when we play instruments, he would emphasize not thinking about these things when we are playing and just about completely concentrating on the sound that we are trying to make and forming a very strong concepts in our minds of what sound we striving to have our instruments and ourselves create.

Some people tend to define "technical" as tonguing, and that's okay, but there are books like (trombone) Bordogni books 2 and 3 - put together by a man named Rochut a long time ago - which are both busy (ok: "technical") and lyrical, but just don't involve as much tonguing. The skill of reading at the octave is required, but that's a pretty easy (as well as useful) skill to acquire.

As far as a balance of tonguing/technical exercises and lyrical, why not pretend like you're both the student and teacher and assign yourself one of each weekly, work on those and try to at least and enough time so as you would imagine some fairly demanding teacher giving you a grade of B or B+ on them, and then moving on to the next ones in whatever books you have, whether they be the (tuba) Bordogni 43, Tyrell, Kopprasch, or whatever.

You mentioned embouchure stability. I don't know what that means, unless it means that you are not landing on pitches accurately when playing high velocity passages. I'm pretty sure that you already know to slow things down until your mind can keep track of all of the pitches that are expected to be played and get a handle on each one. Further, I'm not talking about the mind controlling the embouchure; I am referring to the mind pre-hearing all of the sounds. We shouldn't concentrate so much on the mind controlling the body, and we should more concentrate on the mind absolutely knowing what sounds are next and just how they're supposed to sound. Knowing what we are supposed to do - sound-wise - is the so-called "secret". I believe that spending a lot of energy concentrating on the physical part (at least once we know that what the physical part is supposed to do - and get those things reasonably under control) is a stumbling block. I have encountered professional players who play by feel - rather than by sound - and - even after decades of playing - they still have to work very hard to master playing individual pieces of music. Circling back to the beginning of this paragraph, if things are sounding to you like a mess when playing very fast- even though/if you're completely hearing in your mind what you're trying to accomplish - it could be that you're doing too much work and moving things too much or to far in your mouth area. You might examine whether or not you're overworking and moving things too far or too much. One of the tricks to accurate high velocity is minimal motion.

breathing:
I'm one of those with fairly large lungs, and have always gotten away with being lazy in regards to this, but lately I've had to be more serious and strict with myself. I'm getting older - plus I'm playing on a giant instrument, so I'm having to get serious with myself regarding breathing habits taking in quicker deeper breaths. The thing about breathing and playing the tuba is that we need to look ahead in the music (particularly if sight reading) and see where we can do it without disrupting the music. Sight reading is probably not the most important (unless we are sight reading a gig) but to go back and mark breaths is a good idea, because (at least for me) those are some of the hardest things to remember and I end up boxing myself into a corner without remembering some of the places that I need to breathe (whereby other smaller instrument players might be able to pass by those places).

As far as breathing itself goes, all of this stuff that was taught several decades ago about the gut and all that nonsense needs to be thrown by the wayside. The most natural and deep breathing is when we yawn. We simply need to teach ourselves to breathe like that when we need deep breaths for long phrases, and to be able to do it quickly and somehow in a physically relaxed way, even though our minds may not feel like relaxing - due to the fact that we're busy playing. Finally, this needs to be developed to the level that we're not thinking about it and we just do it.

I have typed a lot of blather here, but the main thing is to not overthink nor dwell too much the physical, and (much more) concentrate on the aural and the sonic. Remarkably, our bodies tend to find the best ways to do things when we know just what it is we are trying to accomplish down to the last details. In this case, it's accomplishing extremely specific sounds. Great teachers can always be a great help, but obviously people originally figured out stuff out on their own, which means that maybe we can do some of that ourselves while also listening to the advice of experienced teachers who seem to have a handle on most everything (evidenced by the fact that they can not only discuss, but do).

[peterbas]

You can train your muscles that or used for breathing in.
It also helps to lower your blood pressure and that is why I bought one, so maybe a win-win.
I have the medium and the first time I put the resistance somewhat halfway, being a tuba player
I had to dial it back to the lowest setting to be able to get 30 repetitions comfortably



https://www.powerbreathe.com/whos-it-fo ... rts/music/

[Mary Ann]

I thought more teachers and advanced players would chip in here but -- I see not. If you are having trouble keeping everything working right on fast passages, slow down to a tempo where it all works. You learn what you practice, so don't practice what isn't working. When a tempo becomes easy, move the metronome up one (!) notch. Everyone has limits to what they are coordinated at, and the high level players just happen to have limits that are higher level, which is why they are where they are. My own physical coordination limits appear to be regional orchestra level on my main studied instrument. I don't think I would have gotten past that level no matter how long I stayed with it.

[bloke]

"Medium is the least expensive version, correct ?

I don't feel very "rich", right now, but like to know about stuff (for when I don't feel quite as destitute).

I remember (decades ago) people blowing through PVC pipes (which they hung around their neck via a string). To use intermittently throughout a practice session. It seems to me that the piece of pipe was sort of the opposite thing...or I probably don't understand...

The piece of pipe really didn't change anything, yet it encouraged the person (with a piece of pipe stuck in their mouth) to breath with everything (everything physiologically concerned) more wide open.

I admitted (above) that I'm having to be more serious about my own breathing habits (aging + huge instrument with huge bore size).

[peterbas]

Classic is the cheapest version.
I've the next one, plus IMT and it is sort of a lot of money for a plastic gizmo but being able of cutting down on meds will make for up.

[bloke]

' glad you're getting (important) side benefits.

[kingrob76]

I remember (decades ago) people blowing through PVC pipes (which they hung around their neck via a string). To use intermittently throughout a practice session. It seems to me that the piece of pipe was sort of the opposite thing...or I probably don't understand...

The piece of pipe really didn't change anything, yet it encouraged the person (with a piece of pipe stuck in their mouth) to breath with everything (everything physiologically concerned) more wide open.

For me (from my teacher at the time), it was about creating airflow with as much relaxation as possible, particularly in the throat and jaw and helped me remove a lot of tension in my playing. I then could learn how to control my airflow (make it slower) while still as open and relaxed as possible. It was a good little tool to have when I had it.

[Mary Ann]

I have recently moved even more to the concept that the pitch produced on a brass has to do with "the size of the hole in your face," and your ability to achieve that size with least effort. For me, that is easy in the low range, but more difficult as I go higher because of my long history of trying to play high on horn with inadequate instruction on how to do so, resulting in high levels of muscle effort and mouthpiece pressure. Only with tuba, where it is literally impossible for me to use mouthpiece pressure, have I been finding the other way to play, which results in just barely having contact with the cup instead of the bright red squashed and mistreated lips that I used to have in the high range on horn.

My trumpet playing friend who has recently taken up euphonium because of his age making trumpet even more difficult due to the way he plays it (smiling and squashing to go high) -- is now having the same problem with the high range on the euph because he is approaching it the same way. Old dog, new trick, can't seem to do it. And this is someone who was on the gymnastics team at Stanford -- not lacking in coordination, just instruction at the age it was needed. Also really smart but can't seem to get the concept, unwilling perhaps to experiment like I do.

[bloke]

Tuba music is not high.
It rarely creeps into the treble clef, and extreme examples don't extend very far into it.

That aside...To play pitches which are both higher and usable is a process of beginning with squeaks, progressing to controlled squeaks, and - once the squeaks are controlled, graduate the squeaks (via gradual strengthening the muscles around the mouth - while also mastering control of those gradually-strengthened muscles) into sounds which vibrate enough to sufficiently vibrate the instrument's air column, and - once that occurs - continue until the sound that vibrates the air column becomes a pleasing sound, and - finally - develop that pleasing sound so as it can be produced in a wide dynamic range (weeks - months).

As far as playing controlled/resonating pitches into the treble clef is concerned, I've never found much advantage with smaller cup openings (ie. moving down from - say - 33mm to 30mm doesn't do all that much, unless the player's face is narrow enough that making a seal is difficult without a narrower opening). I have found that avoiding excessively large mouthpiece throats assists in both producing the lowest and highest pitches that we strive to play. Smaller instrument bore and body sizes assist in producing the highest pitches that we play - or attempt to play, and (just as with smaller mouthpiece throat sizes) also assist with the lowest pitches that we typically play - or attempt to play. Put a different way, resistance facilitates control...

(me...?? I've encountered a whole bunch of mouthpieces - particularly more recently-designed ones - with throat sizes that are so large that I would not even look past that feature.
...but bloke, do you have a World-Class Sound...?? ok...probably not , but I never leave the house with a tuba without returning home with a check.

...and others may disagree with all of the above, and/or respond with "but I...", and that's fine.