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I have a new tuba student, just starting 5th grade. He played baritone for a year, and now wants to play the tuba. He is rather small, and the mouthpiece he was given with his school horn seems too big for him ... A Jupiter 24AW, which is about 32 mm diameter. I need to find a smaller diameter mp that will fit his embouchure better. Looking for suggestions

The only other mouthpiece I can recall off the top of my head that has a smaller ID than that one is the Bach 32E which I think is around 30mm.

My son started on 6th grade on a Bach 25 and it fit him very well. Smaller diameter and smaller throat. Didn't suck the wind out of him.

Davestankus915 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2024 2:43 pm I have a new tuba student, just starting 5th grade. He played baritone for a year, and now wants to play the tuba. He is rather small, and the mouthpiece he was given with his school horn seems too big for him ... A Jupiter 24AW, which is about 32 mm diameter. I need to find a smaller diameter mp that will fit his embouchure better. Looking for suggestions

The 24AW has a medium dia deep cup and a wide rim, years ago I tried a 24W and it didn’t fit my adult face because it was too wide overall. Try a Bach 25, it’ll be a step forward in terms of giving the youngster something that he might manage to use. In my adult journey from playing Trombone to playing Tuba the Bach 25 was a piece that I used, it was very helpful to me and I made a lot of music using one. It can take a long time to build Tuba ‘chops’ and it’s better to use a smaller diameter cup that allows lip control than a bigger one that doesn’t - if you’re playing a three valve tuba then surprisingly small diameter cups still work. One of my section mates used a Wick 5 (30mm cup) in a BBb,

I used to start my beginner 6th grade tuba students on the Bach 32E. As they grew physically larger, I moved them to a Helleberg 7B.

Jperry1466 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2024 10:05 pm I used to start my beginner 6th grade tuba students on the Bach 32E. As they grew physically larger, I moved them to a Helleberg 7B.

^^ Good to hear.

In my amateur experience Tubas can be played with quite small cups. Provided the lip control is there then bigger cups seem to produce richer sounds and allow access to the fourth valve low range. If the lip control isn’t yet there then smaller cups allow some music making and progress. At one time I played a three valve Eb with a 28 mm cup Bass Trombone piece (Tuba had a receiver to match the shank) and it worked just fine. As mentioned earlier the Wick 5 (30mm) worked in a BBb for a section mate, the Bach 30e is a similar size to that Wick. The Bach 32e has a - even smaller - 29.5 mm cup, well that’s what I recall it being.

For the smaller cups it’s a case of seeing what’s about at a reasonable price and then trying something.

As they say: “try everything, use what works”.

The OP doesn’t say whether his student is using an F, Eb, C or BBb Tuba; I think that the BBb is now predominant in Schools in the USA but at one time Eb’s were also used too. As a young person, and now here in later life too, I’ve made a lot of good enough music on an Eb Tuba and imho they are noticeably easier to use than a BBb - guess what size I’d want to start a child on.

Opinions vary and children do some amazing things; the child will play what size - and pitch - the School lends to him.

As someone probably not a lot bigger, or maybe not at all bigger -- the JK 8C and the Wick 5 come to mind as mouthpieces that are more tuba cups than a 32E (I have one of those and bleah) and still 30.5 mm diameter.

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 9:33 am As someone probably not a lot bigger, or maybe not at all bigger -- the JK 8C and the Wick 5 come to mind as mouthpieces that are more tuba cups than a 32E (I have one of those and bleah) and still 30.5 mm diameter.

I’m not disagreeing with you and just recall (for the OP’s information) that you play Eb Tubas.

The Bach manual (on page 28) classes the 30E and 32E as Junior mouthpieces that are (only) suitable for Eb Tubas. Everything above and including a Bach 25 (30.6 mm cup) is supposedly OK for BBb too. Why do they say that? Well I suppose it’s all a guide that they feel is necessary to give. How does it match with player experiences? I’d have thought it broadly in-line with player experiences but note that instruments vary a lot in design, mouthpieces don’t all have the same characteristics and human input varies. There are too many variables for hard and fast rules.
The Bach Mouthpiece manual: https://www.mouthpieceexpress.com/media ... hmouth.pdf

I’m not sure but I think that the best sound that I ever got out of my three valve small Besson Eb was with a Doug Yeo Bass Trombone piece, that mouthpiece has a cup diameter of just 28.7mm. I borrowed that Doug Yeo mouthpiece and the owner didn’t want to sell it, but had the opportunity been there and the price been right then I’d have bought it. I’ve tried many other mouthpieces in that small Besson Eb Tuba and the next best sound is arguably with a Wick 3 (which has a significantly bigger cup), seemingly size isn’t the only important variable.
https://www.thomann.co.uk/yamaha_mundst ... ss_pos.htm

Rules … well they’re more of a guide really.

Wick 4L / 5L

Wick 5L, Kelly X-Small or 25, Bach 32E or 25.

I always thought the 24AW was an odd choice for most school uses. Very deep, very open throat, very wide rim. It may have a moderate inner diameter, but that very wide rim takes up a lot of real estate on the face with its large outer diameter. Staying the Bach numbers, an 18, 22, or even the small 25 are much more reasonable.

Side note: all of the big, deep Deck mouthpieces from the original Giardinelli WD24 to the Orfeo/Houser Deck 3 “Bronx Billyclub” to the LOUD LM5 were all based on 24AW cup without the very wide rim. It can be a great sounding cup. How it was attached to that wide rim would be interesting to know. I imagine someone of some importance requested it and it stuck back when Vincent Bach himself was involved.

2nd tenor wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 3:10 am

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 9:33 am As someone probably not a lot bigger, or maybe not at all bigger -- the JK 8C and the Wick 5 come to mind as mouthpieces that are more tuba cups than a 32E (I have one of those and bleah) and still 30.5 mm diameter.

I’m not disagreeing with you and just recall (for the OP’s information) that you play Eb Tubas.

Yes but JPerry uses a Wick 5 on his 184, and I'm using a Wick 4 on the Hagen. Small faces need smaller width cups, but obviously different things work for different people. And I'll re-iterate that I am impressed with whatever it is about Wicks that somehow makes it "feel less fluffy" to play than anything else I have every tried.

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2024 8:24 am

2nd tenor wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 3:10 am

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 9:33 am As someone probably not a lot bigger, or maybe not at all bigger -- the JK 8C and the Wick 5 come to mind as mouthpieces that are more tuba cups than a 32E (I have one of those and bleah) and still 30.5 mm diameter.

I’m not disagreeing with you and just recall (for the OP’s information) that you play Eb Tubas.

Yes but JPerry uses a Wick 5 on his 184, and I'm using a Wick 4 on the Hagen. Small faces need smaller width cups, but obviously different things work for different people. And I'll re-iterate that I am impressed with whatever it is about Wicks that somehow makes it "feel less fluffy" to play than anything else I have every tried.

I hadn’t realised you had a BBb too, apologies.

Unless I’m mistaken both of those Tubas are small BBb Miraphones and I’d have thought it likely that they were relatively small bore too. The old British small(er) bore instruments were supplied with and apparently played quite well with small cup dia mouthpieces. I might have mentioned it up the thread but a section mate had a Wick 5 supplied with his BBb and he got by in the three valve range. Ignorance is bliss, or something like that, and he just got on with using what he had. Now that section mate has a Wick 3 but to allow him better access to the fourth valve range I believe that he’d be better off with a Wick 2 - if only I could manage to spot a second-hand one at a reasonable price.

Whatever, I’ve found that the Wick range works well for me: reasonable performance and (second-hand here in the UK) sometimes at a reasonable price.